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I have been to rying to reflect on why we have struggled to perform and get results at home if god forbid we have another season in this league.
1 we do not create or take enough clear cut chances
2 it seems to matter little which members of the squad take to the field the pattern of play and problems are the same
3 unconvincing since Christmas again
So what needs to change to address this if we have to do it all next season?
1 create a squad of players who can be used to change our style for certain games or indeed during games. Our current squad are all like for likes, especially the midfield and strikers. We are just too predictable and by Christmas other teams have worked out how we play and know how to stop us.
2 completely overhaul the midfield including wide areas. We need to be much stronger physically in the centre and be capable of playing 5 across the middle with a lone front man, but attack in numbers when we do. Not necessarily every game but to unlock stubborn defences. Playing this way we will get more second balls and prevent the opposition from pushing us back.
3 we need to be able to get the ball through and beyond defenders and reduce the high ball into the area. Defenders at this level will deal with that all day long. Turn them with the ball on the floor and they will struggle.
Finally we do have some talented players but too many are too lightweight for this league and don't have the space to express themselves, we get forced into playing close 1 touch football and the moves break down. This why we looked better against the league clubs and other teams who play a more open style. So I think we are stuck with this for now and there is little PH or anyone else can do to change it at this stage. Still hoping for the best.
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| RoboCod |
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Let's start with Paddy at left back. Drop Disley to the bench and start with Kerr/Thanoj. Rodman/Neilson wide with orders to overlap and cross/cut in at every opportunity. Don't care who plays up front, as you say we've tried them all, it's the team behind them not creating chances that is the problem. But Tonka looked every inch a true Town player last night, he looked like he cared.
Time for Hurst to actually try something different, to be ruthless and drop apparently un-droppable players and shape the midfield into an attacking one. Defence, as above with Paddy included, will always be solid.
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| highcliff mariner |
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why would you want paddy at left back ??
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Let's start with Paddy at left back. Drop Disley to the bench and start with Kerr/Thanoj. Rodman/Neilson wide with orders to overlap and cross/cut in at every opportunity. Don't care who plays up front, as you say we've tried them all, it's the team behind them not creating chances that is the problem. But Tonka looked every inch a true Town player last night, he looked like he cared.
Time for Hurst to actually try something different, to be ruthless and drop apparently un-droppable players and shape the midfield into an attacking one. Defence, as above with Paddy included, will always be solid.
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Aswad is the natural left back and has had several MOTM performances. Paddy has played there once.
The only players I would definitely keep next season would be McKeown, Thomas, Pearson, McDonald and Boyce if we can get him.
Maybe Neilson, Thanoj and Rodman, but the rest for me could go, we can get better, and would need to.
UTM
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Now I am not in favour of this BUT the way we was aimlessly playing balls forward in the air late on in the game on Tuesday we might as well as brought McDonald on, played him up front and hope that someone may have got on the end of one of his headers
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Aswad is the natural left back and has had several MOTM performances. Paddy has played there once.
The only players I would definitely keep next season would be McKeown, Thomas, Pearson, McDonald and Boyce if we can get him.
Maybe Neilson, Thanoj and Rodman, but the rest for me could go, we can get better, and would need to.
UTM
The players you mention there tommy is exactly the same as what my lad and me said this morning, i would add Paddy to that list though. |
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The players you mention there tommy is exactly the same as what my lad and me said this morning, i would add Paddy to that list though.
Yeh, I would probably add Paddy as well, a genuine guy I think. UTM |
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Paddy is the only player under contract for next season isn't he? Signed a 2 year deal last summer if I am correct. Agree though I think he's shown us he's a good player when he's had a chance albeit being played out of position in the left midfield role. Would be good to see him in his favoured central midfield role the next couple of games considering the Diz/Kerr partnership looks like it's lost the spark.
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Everyone I spoke to after the Chester game were impressed with Paddy's qualities at LB, bearing in mind he was a stand-in. I though Thomas was dreadful last night, even before the yellow card he seemed nervy when in possession and not at all sure where he was going with the ball, a far cry from the surging runs we've seen him manage. For me McLaughlin does/did everything that Aswad fails to do,simple defensive duties with no silly' committed'/mistimed tackles, excellent on the overlap and dares to burst into the box instead of looking for the extra yard to deliver the cross.
Would like to see a continuation of his time at left back and how he can link with Neilson, and make us look a real threat down the sides, constantly, for once.
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I'd give everyone a mug of espresso before every game. We were listless and ponderous in possession and the passing was way short of Halifax's on most occasions. They looked like they had been to a funeral not up for a play-off chasing game at all...
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Paddy was decent at left back against Chester. I reckon I could've played right back.
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Paddy was decent at left back against Chester. I reckon I could've played right back.
Just what i was thinking. A quick winger would cause Paddy no end of trouble. I would love to see Paddy given a go in centre mid where he is supposed to be. |
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He should be playing centre mid, but ain't gonna happen this season as Hurst will pig-headedly stick with Kerr and Disley when they are fit.
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One request would be for more robust, athletic and strong midfielders. They could support the strikers more. As I said on another thread, Pearson (no 5) for Halifax is the perfect example. He chases everything. Halifax fans rate Pearson as their best player - after Lee Gregory.
Mansfield were a physically team and they got promoted.
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Paddy is the only player under contract for next season isn't he? Signed a 2 year deal last summer if I am correct. Agree though I think he's shown us he's a good player when he's had a chance albeit being played out of position in the left midfield role. Would be good to see him in his favoured central midfield role the next couple of games considering the Diz/Kerr partnership looks like it's lost the spark.
Paddy, Hannah and Pearson are the only players under contract for next year I think. |
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| cmackenzie4 |
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Paddy, Hannah and Pearson are the only players under contract for next year I think.
I thought Mckeown was too? |
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I thought Mckeown was too?
We've offered him a deal but he hasn't signed it yet I think. |
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We've offered him a deal but he hasn't signed it yet I think.
Ah! thanks for clearing that up Tom - lets hope he signs. |
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| chaos33 |
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One request would be for more robust, athletic and strong midfielders. They could support the strikers more. As I said on another thread, Pearson (no 5) for Halifax is the perfect example. He chases everything. Halifax fans rate Pearson as their best player - after Lee Gregory.
Mansfield were a physically team and they got promoted.
So were Newport. It's a seductive theory - to think that you can't get promoted unless you have a few hard hitters (what Halifax fans called their midfield 'tanks'), especially when you think of these examples, but then you remember that York were promoted with a team more lightweight than ours. Mind you, their players could control, pass, move, cross, take corners etc. Hang on.....don't we have half of their players now...?? What happened to them? |
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| Madeleymariner |
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So were Newport. It's a seductive theory - to think that you can't get promoted unless you have a few hard hitters (what Halifax fans called their midfield 'tanks'), especially when you think of these examples, but then you remember that York were promoted with a team more lightweight than ours. Mind you, their players could control, pass, move, cross, take corners etc.
Hang on.....don't we have half of their players now...?? What happened to them?
Yes but most are now old and knackered |
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We've offered him a deal but he hasn't signed it yet I think.
According to my sources he has signed its just the club not publicising it yet. |
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| petethemariner |
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The thing that struck me last night was that Halifax were almost totally a
big physical long ball team, i presume Hurst knew that, but refuses to
'think out of the box' why didn't we play Pearson, Mcdonald and Boyce at
the back to combat the bombardment of long balls and play two wing backs
who could support attacking play and when needed defend?
Hurst's only tactic was to play like for like against a side better at it than us,
sorry, but IMO PH lacks positivity, flair and the willingness to change the oh so
predictable style and this will cost us again by seasons end.
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| FishOutOfWater |
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The thing that struck me last night was that Halifax were almost totally a
big physical long ball team, i presume Hurst knew that, but refuses to
'think out of the box' why didn't we play Pearson, Mcdonald and Boyce at
the back to combat the bombardment of long balls and play two wing backs
who could support attacking play and when needed defend?
Hurst's only tactic was to play like for like against a side better at it than us,
sorry, but IMO PH lacks positivity, flair and the willingness to change the oh so
predictable style and this will cost us again by seasons end.
The three centre back option was mentioned on here a few weeks back I quite like the idea myself seeing as though a lot of the time teams tend to just come and park the bus with us and as you said when a team like Halifax uses aerial bombardment as a tactic, it should be really easy with 3 at the back Both Thomas and Hatton could then get up and down the wings and give both defensive and attacking options to suit I know Hull have played this way (albeit at a much higher level than us) and have been relatively successful so you could argue we have nothing to lose giving this formation a go? |
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| highcliff mariner |
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The thing that struck me last night was that Halifax were almost totally a big physical long ball team, i presume Hurst knew that, but refuses to 'think out of the box' why didn't we play Pearson, Mcdonald and Boyce at the back to combat the bombardment of long balls and play two wing backs who could support attacking play and when needed defend? Hurst's only tactic was to play like for like against a side better at it than us,
sorry, but IMO PH lacks positivity, flair and the willingness to change the oh so
predictable style and this will cost us again by seasons end.
PH does seem to be a cautious type when choosing his line up 
Makes sense to me ! |
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| 3610 |
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The thing that struck me last night was that Halifax were almost totally a
big physical long ball team, i presume Hurst knew that, but refuses to
'think out of the box' why didn't we play Pearson, Mcdonald and Boyce at
the back to combat the bombardment of long balls and play two wing backs
who could support attacking play and when needed defend?
Hurst's only tactic was to play like for like against a side better at it than us,
sorry, but IMO PH lacks positivity, flair and the willingness to change the oh so
predictable style and this will cost us again by seasons end.
He lacks the positivity and flair ...... However your suggestion was a very negative one as you were changing the tactics to nullify the opposition rather than focus on your own strengths. Have you ever tried coaching a team to play three at the back? I am a big fan of it, but it takes a lot of getting used to and now is not the right time of the season to be swapping from a successful four at the back to a 3/5. Also, just to make your point look even more ridiculous- they only scored one goal which was a great goal in any league. And one final point!! Who would you play at right wing back- a crucial positon in making this a successful formation .... The energetic Hatton? |
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| chaos33 |
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I agree. I assume from your post that you have tried coaching that system. You might not be the only poster with coaching experience so I'd add a note of caution about tone.
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Quoted from 3610
Also, just to make your point look even more ridiculous- they only scored one goal which was a great goal in any league.
The thing is they always seem to score the one lucky ,world class goal against us .Maybe if we went and scored a couple ourselves then it wouldnt be such a problem ? Hurst seemed intent on a 0-0 draw and was moaning because we missed our only chance of the game. The flipping idiot should maybe think of us trying to have more than one chance in a game  |
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| 3610 |
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I agree. I assume from your post that you have tried coaching that system. You might not be the only poster with coaching experience so I'd add a note of caution about tone.
I am sorry if my tone may have dropped in responding to a poster who will come up with any out of the box theory he can muster on a weekly basis just so he can get on our managers back. I can bet my mortgage that there are a hell of a lot of posters on here who have never coached aswell!! |
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| petethemariner |
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Any out of the box theory on a weekly basis? Are you real? I have posted about
3 at the back for months if you care to check, as a matter of fact i have coached
teams and played in something in excess of 1500 games at a good level in a
35 year career- including 3 at the back, so reckon i have just about earned the
right to an opinion about the game..
For your information i have not been the most vociferous in crticism of PH by
a long way, indeed i posted on here a while back that he had suprised me how
well he had done - (until recently) and IMO he has now lost the plot - i am far from
being alone in that opinion, although your clearly superior football knowledge
means you know better doesn't it?.
By the way, look at my reputation score of +31 and -1 against your plus 5 minus 2
before you start slagging off posters.
Thanks Chaos for pointing out to him about tone - i try not to offend anyone with
my posts and have a right to an opinion, i d'ont need to wear the rosiest of rose
tinted glasses that Salford Mariner seems to wear to know something is currently
missing or wrong with the team and Salford if you cannot debate in a reasonable
manner, d'ont bother.
There are plenty of comments i would love to make to SM, but manners, clearly
something he doesn't possess, prevents me.
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| RoboCod |
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To be fair, the thread creator did ask for something different. To call contributions to such a thread ridiculous is a little unfair and unwarranted.
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| 3610 |
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Any out of the box theory on a weekly basis? Are you real? I have posted about
3 at the back for months if you care to check, as a matter of fact i have coached
teams and played in something in excess of 1500 games at a good level in a
35 year career- including 3 at the back, so reckon i have just about earned the
right to an opinion about the game..
For your information i have not been the most vociferous in crticism of PH by
a long way, indeed i posted on here a while back that he had suprised me how
well he had done - (until recently) and IMO he has now lost the plot - i am far from
being alone in that opinion, although your clearly superior football knowledge
means you know better doesn't it?.
By the way, look at my reputation score of +31 and -1 against your plus 5 minus 2
before you start slagging off posters.
Thanks Chaos for pointing out to him about tone - i try not to offend anyone with
my posts and have a right to an opinion, i d'ont need to wear the rosiest of rose
tinted glasses that Salford Mariner seems to wear to know something is currently
missing or wrong with the team and Salford if you cannot debate in a reasonable
manner, d'ont bother.
There are plenty of comments i would love to make to SM, but manners, clearly
something he doesn't possess, prevents me.
Touched a nerve there fella!?!
I was trying to have a reasonable debate. I have asked a few footballing based questions in counter argument to your attack on our manager. Can you have a reasonable debate and try and back up your attack on him?
How did you get on with introducing 3 at the back btw? How many training sessions did you think it took, and how many have town had between games?
I was referring to how you were critical of pre dartford about squad changes- I am surprised that you wouldn't sympathise with having played all those games.
It's not a personal thing- and it's not just you I just find it frustrating when people can be so critical of a manager for things that can be very easily counter argued.
Squad acquisition, personel in key areas, lack of pace, breaking up the best defence, lack of creativity in the middle of the park I understand and sign up to but I feel he gets a lot of undeserved stick which does not help at all at this stage of the season.
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| petethemariner |
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Listen 'Fella' as Robocod correctly says, this is a thread about something different,
playing 3 at the back is something different and something that has worked with
countless teams, just how difficult is it for 3 professional defenders to take care
of what is usually a maximum of 2 attackers? Not difficult at all i would say and yes
i have played in successful sides playing that formation - it isn't difficult so long
as your wing backs do their jobs with discipline.
I am quite happy to discuss your 'footballing points' in a reasonable way - calling
a reasonable suggestion 'ridiculous', 'even more ridiculous' and then claiming i make
weekly attacks on the manager for some sort of vendetta's sake is unreasonable
i would say, I agree i have i made some critical points of Hurst in recent weeks
because i feel he warrants them, bizarre team selections on a weekly basis
instead of a settled side as much is reasonably possible, persistance with 'hoofball',
and strange treatment of certain players give me that right on a football forum,
i have also made positive points about Hurst in the past and i would say i am not
even in the top 10 of Hurst critics on this forum, yet you choose to make a
personal attack on me.
Regarding Dartford, i admitted that players needed to be rested, but not 10 and
why was there not one players on the bench capable of getting us a goal when we
needed one? - i think those are fair observations - even prem sides with quality
squads do not make 10 changes.
I hope Hurst succeeds but feel he has lost his way and plenty on here agree with
that assessment.
You can have your opinion - i am entitled to mine.
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| petethemariner |
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Oh and i just want to add Salford that the extra negative reputation score you
appear to have recently received is nothing to do with me, so please do
not claim otherwise.
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| grimsby pete |
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I am a bit confused why proven goalscorers can not find the net for us this season,
The only thing I can think of is we are not creating the chances for them to put it away,
Changes need to be made in midfield imo,
Disley should play and Kerr should play,
But
Not together.
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| petethemariner |
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I can see where you are coming from on that Pete and think in a strict
4-4-2 you are completely right - part of my thinking with the 3 at the
back was that it would free a player such as Scott Neilson to play in
a more forward role between what is a deep lying midfield and our forwards,
i think you would soon see our forwards starting to score again given the
better service they would undoubtedly get AND it would encourage the
team to play a bit more football.
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| 3610 |
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Listen 'Fella' as Robocod correctly says, this is a thread about something different,
playing 3 at the back is something different and something that has worked with
countless teams, just how difficult is it for 3 professional defenders to take care
of what is usually a maximum of 2 attackers? Not difficult at all i would say and yes
i have played in successful sides playing that formation - it isn't difficult so long
as your wing backs do their jobs with discipline.
I am quite happy to discuss your 'footballing points' in a reasonable way - calling
a reasonable suggestion 'ridiculous', 'even more ridiculous' and then claiming i make
weekly attacks on the manager for some sort of vendetta's sake is unreasonable
i would say, I agree i have i made some critical points of Hurst in recent weeks
because i feel he warrants them, bizarre team selections on a weekly basis
instead of a settled side as much is reasonably possible, persistance with 'hoofball',
and strange treatment of certain players give me that right on a football forum,
i have also made positive points about Hurst in the past and i would say i am not
even in the top 10 of Hurst critics on this forum, yet you choose to make a
personal attack on me.
Regarding Dartford, i admitted that players needed to be rested, but not 10 and
why was there not one players on the bench capable of getting us a goal when we
needed one? - i think those are fair observations - even prem sides with quality
squads do not make 10 changes.
I hope Hurst succeeds but feel he has lost his way and plenty on here agree with
that assessment.
You can have your opinion - i am entitled to mine.
The thread was what to differently for next season. Not what hurst should have done differently against Halifax and why that makes him useless/clueless or a clown which other posters constantly put. I thought The suggestion was ridiculous not because of the formation per se.... But the fact that you call hurst too negative and then yourself suggest a negative tactic (which if hurst had done people would have slammed), and the fact yourself and others criticise hurst for chopping and changing too much- but yet changing the entire defensive system when our defence isn't the biggest problem was what he should of done last game. Inconsistencies. As for the negative reputation score- our friend mr acko- I guess it's more popular to be against our team, manager and players when we are on the verge of playoffs rather than question the people who criticise them. And btw it Wasn't a personal attack on you. I probably should of picked another post/person to reply to. |
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| 3610 |
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So to talk about formations for NEXT SEASON in a sensible way. I will start.
3 at the back 2 wing backs etc...
Thomas is perfect. Would need someone like pipe from Newport. Otherwise we would be forced to deep and loose numerical advantage in key areas.
Centre backs- Big Mac and one other good on the ball, to bring out of defence. Would worry teams would target Pearson when on the ball forcing long ball, but his other qualities are worth it. I know you disagree but I feel they would need time to get used to playing 3 at the back over pre season. They struggled enough switching to 433.
Box to box midfielders and a lot more mobility and energy in there (prob needed whatever formation to be fair)
Pace seriously needed up front.
Your Thoughts?
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| petethemariner |
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But playing with wing backs ISN'T negative at all Salford, just the opposite
so long as your wing backs are prepared to put in the hard work neccessary,
as i said earlier it allows a more positive role for someone in the 'hole' which
is an area of the pitch that opposing defenders hate because they d'ont
know whether to 'stick or twist' ie; go out to meet them or allow them too
much space 20-30 yards from goal - i accept that if the wing backs aren't
prepared to put in what amounts to 60 yard 'doggies'between supporting
attack and getting back to defend it could come unstuck, but IMO we
HAVE to start playing more football, i just do not think we will get through
the play offs playing the 'hoof' game and that extra man in an advanced
position would encourage the ball to be used more creatively than at present.
Even you with your support for PH must surely admit we do not score
nearly enough goals and that cannot be solely down to players who have
proved in ther past that they CAN score, but c'ant now - there HAS to be
a reason for this and IMO is summed up in two words - No creativity.
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| 3610 |
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But playing with wing backs ISN'T negative at all Salford, just the opposite
so long as your wing backs are prepared to put in the hard work neccessary,
as i said earlier it allows a more positive role for someone in the 'hole' which
is an area of the pitch that opposing defenders hate because they d'ont
know whether to 'stick or twist' ie; go out to meet them or allow them too
much space 20-30 yards from goal - i accept that if the wing backs aren't
prepared to put in what amounts to 60 yard 'doggies'between supporting
attack and getting back to defend it could come unstuck, but IMO we
HAVE to start playing more football, i just do not think we will get through
the play offs playing the 'hoof' game and that extra man in an advanced
position would encourage the ball to be used more creatively than at present.
Even you with your support for PH must surely admit we do not score
nearly enough goals and that cannot be solely down to players who have
proved in ther past that they CAN score, but c'ant now - there HAS to be
a reason for this and IMO is summed up in two words - No creativity.
I completely agree that it isn't negative. However, Changing your tactics too nullify the opposition like you said is though. To change the tactics to meet your squad strengths and start playing football like you just suggested isn't- if that makes sense. I only said it was negative because of your reasoning at the time. Anyway, I said I really like the formation. It creates triangles and outnumbers the opposition in all the key areas. Not sure if our players have the right attributes though. I actually only think they have the right ones for 442- and if they did change the formation it would take a learning curve and a bit of gamble for the final 3-4 games of the season. Strangely, I am not a massive fan of hurst like you may think - about ten weeks ago I was saying if we had a chance of getting mills, Mellon or burr we should do it then as I see their style as the way forward. However, now is a time to get behind the team cos we actually do have a chance of promotion And I believe this chance would be enhanced if all supporters were unit in the support of the club, minimising negativity and criticism which would no doubt filter through to the players. At the end of the season, if we do not go up- then I will be stating my concerns about the squad and hurst himself. |
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| immariner |
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Do you need 2 players capable of playing in each wing back position? Otherwise for a third of the season (estimated, accounting for injuries and suspensions) you could be forced to play a different formation if no adequate back up.
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| 3610 |
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Do you need 2 players capable of playing in each wing back position? Otherwise for a third of the season (estimated, accounting for injuries and suspensions) you could be forced to play a different formation if no adequate back up.
Good shout. It's a critical position in the formation. You may have to get Mobile defenders to cover, Unless you opt for a defensive winger like colbeck for cover. Rodman and neilson would be cringe worthy In that position! |
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| ackomariner |
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Quoted from 3610
The thread was what to differently for next season. Not what hurst should have done differently against Halifax and why that makes him useless/clueless or a clown which other posters constantly put.
I thought The suggestion was ridiculous not because of the formation per se.... But the fact that you call hurst too negative and then yourself suggest a negative tactic (which if hurst had done people would have slammed), and the fact yourself and others criticise hurst for chopping and changing too much- but yet changing the entire defensive system when our defence isn't the biggest problem was what he should of done last game. Inconsistencies.
As for the negative reputation score- our friend mr acko- I guess it's more popular to be against our team, manager and players when we are on the verge of playoffs rather than question the people who criticise them.
And btw it Wasn't a personal attack on you. I probably should of picked another post/person to reply to.
Too right it was me, you don't half jump on people at times but I gave you the mark for calling me a liar last week. That's why |
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| 3610 |
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Too right it was me, you don't half jump on people at times but I gave you the mark for calling me a liar last week.
That's why
On what occasion did i actually call you a liar. Can't remember that at all. Was it during the period when you only had one post that you repeated on every thread ..... The cook v john Lewis post. Our corners are bad- blame john Lewis, cook would of made them take it better by just looking at them....... I jump on people when they state something critical with no apparent reasoning- they think it is ok to slam john Lewis and hurst in particular but don't like it if I question their point- not them personally, but their point. Their point which they can't actually back up. Like I said, I have my concerns about the team- but the constant negativity driven by a lot of people including yourself is nothing short of embarrassing when we are on the verge of the playoffs. |
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| Tom13 |
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Could Colbeck be the right wing back? He gets up and down the pitch well and he's not too bad defensively. (Not that I'm suggesting we suddenly change the formation in such a drastic way at this stage of the season!)
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| petethemariner |
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Do you need 2 players capable of playing in each wing back position? Otherwise for a third of the season (estimated, accounting for injuries and suspensions) you could be forced to play a different formation if no adequate back up.
Its a good point Immmariner, wingbacks take in a lot of the 'donkey work' so to speak, so you would definitely need more than one to cover each side and they would have to be prob the fittest players in the club, i know Colbeck has his limitations, but i think right side wing back would be ideal for him and as Salford said Thomas is a natural for the left, both are decent going forward with arguably flaws in their defensive play, but nothing too severe that the other 3 couldn't cover, the young defender who played at Dartford could be cover right side, poss Paddy Mac if fit enough, left side. I'm not for one minute suggesting 3 at the back will cure all our failings in one go and there will be key games when you have to revert to a solid 4-4-2, but the home games is particularly what frustrates me, a rigid 4 defenders marking 2 attackers at most, sometimes 1 needs to change IMHO, we need to swarm all over teams at BP and we d'ont, our home record this season is the difference between Luton celebrating the title and it going right to the wire, so something has to change i think. |
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| Tom13 |
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Winfarrah as cover for left wing back perhaps?
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| petethemariner |
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Yes thats a cracking shout Tom, young Winfarrah is naturally a left winger
but can tackle as well, so he would be ideal.
I have no particular hate for PH, he seems an honest guy, but so limited
and dour in his approach, its never 'what we are going to do to Team X' its
'what team X's strengths are, and we have to be worried', when Adkins
managed the travellers he got them promoted twice by making their players
believe in themselves, not be afraid and Scunnys crowd are just as critical,
if not more than ours , Top of league 2 and last week booed off the park i
believe.
The value of positivity is so important in all sport its unbelievable, its the
dividing line and our players and supporters (including me) are lacking that
belief, until we get it we will flounder in the non league.
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| highcliff mariner |
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Any out of the box theory on a weekly basis? Are you real? I have posted about 3 at the back for months if you care to check, as a matter of fact i have coached teams and played in something in excess of 1500 games at a good level in a 35 year career- including 3 at the back, so reckon i have just about earned the right to an opinion about the game.. For your information i have not been the most vociferous in crticism of PH by a long way, indeed i posted on here a while back that he had suprised me how well he had done - (until recently) and IMO he has now lost the plot - i am far from being alone in that opinion, although your clearly superior football knowledge means you know better doesn't it?. By the way, look at my reputation score of +31 and -1 against your plus 5 minus 2 before you start slagging off posters Thanks Chaos for pointing out to him about tone - i try not to offend anyone with my posts and have a right to an opinion, i d'ont need to wear the rosiest of rose tinted glasses that Salford Mariner seems to wear to know something is currently missing or wrong with the team and Salford if you cannot debate in a reasonable manner, d'ont bother. There are plenty of comments i would love to make to SM, but manners, clearly something he doesn't possess, prevents me. your wasting your time pete SM is clearly the font of all football knowledge
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| Tommy |
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Not sure Colbeck's got the brain to learn a very different new position to be honest.
And for his ability alone I'm hoping he won't be at the club next season. It'll worry me if we settle for technically limited players like him just because they're reliable in terms of their work rate.
Bignot would be fine for a wingback role. If he could stay fit.
The other thing with 3 at the back is that the 2 CB's on either side would often have to come across to cover wider areas from balls/attacks down the channels. Especially when teams counter attack against us. We'd have to consider whether the players in the back 3 (2 of them anyway) were mobile enough for this. For instance I dont think a back 3 of McDonald Pearson Doig would work too well.
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| ginnywings |
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Bignot Boyce McDonald Pearson and Thomas would work as a back 5.
Not at this stage of the season though and obviously Boyce isn't a Town player.
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| Tommy |
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I think you're right ginny but your wording of the "back 5" is what would concern me. If Hurst was the one putting this formation in place I'm sure it would end up being just that - a back 5. Rather than wingbacks advanced into midfield just as often.
It was the same with our attempts at 433, which was never in a million years a 433, but a flat 451. We either haven't had players capable of adapting from 442 or Hurst hasn't got the tactical knowledge to get a team playing a different formation.
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| pontoonlew |
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Not sure Colbeck's got the brain to learn a very different new position to be honest.
And for his ability alone I'm hoping he won't be at the club next season. It'll worry me if we settle for technically limited players like him just because they're reliable in terms of their work rate.
Bignot would be fine for a wingback role. If he could stay fit.
The other thing with 3 at the back is that the 2 CB's on either side would often have to come across to cover wider areas from balls/attacks down the channels. Especially when teams counter attack against us. We'd have to consider whether the players in the back 3 (2 of them anyway) were mobile enough for this. For instance I dont think a back 3 of McDonald Pearson Doig would work too well.
Colbeck is yet to learn his own position yet, never mind learn another. |
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| petethemariner |
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Yes i agree that Colbeck has his limitations, i was just trying to find a
suggestion in the current squad for the right side wing back role,
perhaps Bignot or the young lad instead then, someone with the energy
and recovery skills to perform the role, wouldn't have thought Hatton
would be the sort of player to risk there in that formation though.
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| 3610 |
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I would probably say the people on here who are so critical of a professional football managers tactics think that they are the fountain of all football knowledge. Not someone that questions why they are slating him constantly. As I said.... It's more popular to slate the team than question someone who is slating the team. |
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| Meza |
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Using wing backs in a 532 would mean no wingers and no overlapping. Although it offers better defensive options my only worry would be the lack of midfield attack thats if you use the current crop. The only way we would no is to implement it.
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| petethemariner |
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The thing is though Meza that if you get the right players in the wing back
positions ie players that have high levels of fitness and good recovery abilities there
is no reason why they cannot overlap - i wouldn't want to see wingbacks who didn't
get forward, as others have posted that would be too negative, good wing backs like
the Newport lad get forward to support their attack ,but somehow have the fitness to
be back defending in a flash.
That formation also allows the potential for a floating midfielder, the type of role
that Peter Beardsley/Teddy Sherringham/Eric Cantona used to play so well
(for the older posters like me)
I know that there is nil chance of us playing this formation for the remaining games
this season, but if we fail to gain promotion (which sadly i fear we will) we have to
start considering changes in approach for next season IMHO - this might not be the
cure-all, but every side in this league know how we play now, so we have to evolve
a style to get us back in the FL.
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| 137 |
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Playing 3 at the back/wing-backs probably means playing either Neilson or Rodman,
which doesn't get the best use of our most likely match-winners.
I suppose we could try one as a striker alongside (certainly if PH is still here) the Shop.
I quite like the idea - and it could be the making of Colbeck (as right wing-back) - but the old
heads here will remind us (correctly) that whenever Town don't play 4-4-2 it doesn't work.
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| petethemariner |
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I reckon Rodman could score goals played as a striker Chiang, he does
seem one of the better players we have finishing-wise, so a target man and
Rodman with Neilson playing just behind them might work - its all hypothetical
anyway unless the Manager changes, because i could never see Paul Hurst
go with the wingback plan (unfortunately).
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| 137 |
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I reckon Rodman could score goals played as a striker Chiang, he does
seem one of the better players we have finishing-wise, so a target man and
Rodman with Neilson playing just behind them might work - its all hypothetical
anyway unless the Manager changes, because i could never see Paul Hurst
go with the wingback plan (unfortunately).
Yep - agree with you on everything. Rodman could hardly be worse than the rest of our 'strikers'! |
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| ginnywings |
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I reckon Rodman could score goals played as a striker Chiang, he does
seem one of the better players we have finishing-wise, so a target man and
Rodman with Neilson playing just behind them might work - its all hypothetical
anyway unless the Manager changes, because i could never see Paul Hurst
go with the wingback plan (unfortunately).
Rodman has played as a striker at previous clubs. |
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| oldun |
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My original post was not based on using the present players because I don' think many in midfield are suited to different style of play. We need to determine what style/formation to play and recruit players who will fit that. Round pegs in round holes is what is require.
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| Rick12 |
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But Tonka looked every inch a true Town player last night, he looked like he cared.
do like the look of him.If he can be consistent I would try to keep him |
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| Rick12 |
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Changes need to be made in midfield imo,
Disley should play and Kerr should play,
But
Not together.
of the two I would opt for Kerr.Think Disley is decent but Kerr for me (on his game) gives you a bit more energy and bite |
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| BIGChris |
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of the two I would opt for Kerr.Think Disley is decent but Kerr for me (on his game) gives you a bit more energy and bite
I think Kerr is useful for an hour but on a regular basis he seems to get stuck in quicksand in the last half hour. I have seen a lot of occasions when opponents run off him in the closing stages. Not his fault but he seems very one paced and one thing for sure you don't get quicker once you get over 30 The biggest need for me is to to find a central midfielder who can support the forwards & regularly make runs beyond the strikers. I know there aren't many players who fit this mould but it so hard to defend against. You would also need a mobile defensive midfield player alongside this idealistic midfielder. 4-2-3-1? |
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| Rodley Mariner |
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I like 4-2-3-1 as long as the three is made up of genuine attacking players.
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| chaos33 |
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I agree on Kerr and I also like 4-2-3-1. Paddy McLaughlin is currently our most mobile centre midfielder and possibly also the most skilful and attack-minded.
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| Rick12 |
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I think Kerr is useful for an hour but on a regular basis he seems to get stuck in quicksand in the last half hour. I have seen a lot of occasions when opponents run off him in the closing stages. Not his fault but he seems very one paced and one thing for sure you don't get quicker once you get over 30
shame still would keep him though as for me is a good addition to the squad.Can see why he was a success at Lincoln for so long |
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Meza
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