Aswad replacement

So PH now wants to get a left back in on loan whilst we have Magnay, Winfarrah available for left back with Bignot and Walker available to replace Magnay at right back. Seems like a waste to me especially if we play 352 again.

Surely our problems are at the other end of the pitch? 1 goal in 3, 25 goals in the last 23?

Cuckoo............cuckoo..........

Couldn't agree more. Why re-sign Walker and Bignot if you aren't prepared to use them? Winfarrah did well Tuesday, he shouldn't have been dropped on Saturday after playing most of the previous game. Magnay can play at left back and he'll do well there.

PH is far more comfortable dealing with defensive dutys than the other end of the pitch . This is old news as it was known on Wednesday that this was a serious injury .  We have replacements on site available so use them .

Quoted from MuddyWaters

So PH now wants to get a left back in on loan whilst we have Magnay, Winfarrah available for left back with Bignot and Walker available to replace Magnay at right back. Seems like a waste to me especially if we play 352 again.

Surely our problems are at the other end of the pitch? 1 goal in 3, 25 goals in the last 23?

"Husrt wants new defender"  is the telegraphs headline.

well nothing new there, we have a very talented one already in the building called caine winfarrah and is more than good enough to step in for 6 weeks, if we needed to we could put paul bignot in an emergency in there too and if we are really struggling he could put paddy in for a game if needed.

give caine his chance,, what is the point of giving him a deal and not throwing him in, we will ever know what he performs like with a run of games if he isn't given the pissing chance, if it doesn't work out then look at someone to bring in.

I think Gateshead is the wrong game to start Caine. Dover, was the right game!!!!!!!

How about you give the two players in the team who can play left back a chance Paul? And after that how about you pull your finger out your bottom and go get that goalscorer you've known we've needed for 6 months now.

You just couldn't make it up right now. Caine came on the other night and did really well but if he isn't confident Caine can do a job you have Magnay who can comfortably play there and Walker and Bignot to come in at RB. I thought it was a squad game Paul as you always like to tell us?

Losing faith by the second.

UTM

Though I thought Winfarrah did pretty well against Nuneaton on Tuesday, I'm less than convinced he would be able to cope playing against Rodman next weekend. Winfarrah looks to have some ability but is perhap a little small and slight to be a first choice full-back. Are they trying to convert him to that position? I always thought he was supposed to be a midfielder/attacking player?

If Aswad is to be out for 6 weeks or more, it seems reasonably sensible to look for a left-sided player to replace him. Magnay might well be capable of playing on that side, but you still lose your balance playing with a right-footer on the left.

I'd imagine the hunt for a striker goes on independently from the search for a temporary replacement for Aswad.

buckley said on the radio caine is very talented and one of the most talented he has worked with and he sees him as a winger but paul disagrees and sees him as a left back.

I wonder which one I would trust.

Quoted from Maringer

Though I thought Winfarrah did pretty well against Nuneaton on Tuesday, I'm less than convinced he would be able to cope playing against Rodman next weekend. Winfarrah looks to have some ability but is perhap a little small and slight to be a first choice full-back. Are they trying to convert him to that position? I always thought he was supposed to be a midfielder/attacking player?

If Aswad is to be out for 6 weeks or more, it seems reasonably sensible to look for a left-sided player to replace him. Magnay might well be capable of playing on that side, but you still lose your balance playing with a right-footer on the left.

I'd imagine the hunt for a striker goes on independently from the search for a temporary replacement for Aswad.

Put paddy back there then and winfarrah on the wing. Ph hasn't got a clue IMO

i have to agree with whats already been posted, i like paul and desperately want him to do well, but for intercourse sake!!!! we have defenders, we have cover, what we dont have is the striker we have all been craving for, now go get him paul!

Quoted from Maringer

Though I thought Winfarrah did pretty well against Nuneaton on Tuesday, I'm less than convinced he would be able to cope playing against Rodman next weekend. Winfarrah looks to have some ability but is perhap a little small and slight to be a first choice full-back. Are they trying to convert him to that position? I always thought he was supposed to be a midfielder/attacking player?

If Aswad is to be out for 6 weeks or more, it seems reasonably sensible to look for a left-sided player to replace him. Magnay might well be capable of playing on that side, but you still lose your balance playing with a right-footer on the left.

I'd imagine the hunt for a striker goes on independently from the search for a temporary replacement for Aswad.

The general point is why give these players contracts if you don't trust them to do a job? Why spend your loan budget on players you don't need?

Quoted from ackomariner

Put paddy back there then and winfarrah on the wing. Ph hasn't got a clue IMO

Paddy would get 'torn a new one' by Rodman, if you ask me. He'd do his best but is not nearly quick enough to deal with Rodman's running, if you ask me.

I'd rather see Magnay on the left with Bignot (or Walker) coming in on the right. On the other hand, I'd be happier with a decent specialist left-back coming in on loan, if we can find one.

From the comments about squads settling down now the season has commenced, I get the impression that Hurst is perhaps hoping to sign a striker on loan from a higher division club in due course. Just a guess which may be completely incorrect, but that seems the most likely way that we'll make further signings at this stage of the season.

I don`t get it, if Aswad  was fit and playing and Hurst was asked the question "What would happen if our left back got injured" he would almost certainly have replied that there would be sufficient cover at the club to manage even if it meant shuffling players around a little, now all of a sudden its become the main priority at the expense of tackling the obvious which is a goal scoring forward. safety first  bunker mentality consolidation in the league prattle

PH is basically admitting that he got it wrong in pre season in terms of player recruitment. He said we have adequate numbers across the back 4, then 48 hours before the first game brings in a centre half, and now admits that actually we need a back up left back.

In terms of Caine Winfarrah I agree with a previous post that Gateshead might not be the best time to play him at left back especially against the dangerous Rodman, but Dover certainly was. I really hope the manager trusts Caine enough to give him some serious game time this season to help him develop or otherwise I can see us wasting potentially one of the best home grown talents we have produced for many years.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

The general point is why give these players contracts if you don't trust them to do a job? Why spend your loan budget on players you don't need?

If we don't sign a loan left-back, perhaps Magnay will do well enough on the left for him to keep the role until Aswad's return from injury?

As I said, I can see why Hurst might be looking to get a left-footer on loan to play that role, but I do agree that you'd think we have enough full-backs on the books to cover both sides, even with Aswad out. I suppose the worry here is that neither Winfarrah nor Walker has much first team experience as yet and throwing them in at the deep end might not work out.

With only one natural left back at the club, perhaps he should have signed a left footed utility defender. Goodall would have been ideal but he decided he wanted to stay over the other side of the country.

I'd rather have a natural left footed player there if i'm honest and maybe we can get a league player in on loan that doesn't cost much/anything  because his side want him to have a few games under his belt?

His decisions make this article look pointless though.


http://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.....71-detail/story.html

Please correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't Magnay play left back against Rodman in the play-offs?

I think he played left-back one game and right-back in the other. Pretty sure that's what somebody said. Hope it was the second game as I seem to remember that Rodman gave their full-back lots of problems at BP but didn't do too much in the second leg!

Maybe someone should give Jamie Green a call.

Quoted from jimgtfc

PH is basically admitting that he got it wrong in pre season in terms of player recruitment. He said we have adequate numbers across the back 4, then 48 hours before the first game brings in a centre half, and now admits that actually we need a back up left back.

I seem to remember that he did actually talk about the left back position and the names Winfarrah and Magnay were both mentioned by PH as suitable cover. So why is this not reasonable now? As for left footed players being best in that position, I watched Graham Taylor and Brian Keeble play LB for Town for years and both were right footed.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

I seem to remember that he did actually talk about the left back position and the names Winfarrah and Magnay were both mentioned by PH as suitable cover. So why is this not reasonable now? As for left footed players being best in that position, I watched Graham Taylor and Brian Keeble play LB for Town for years and both were right footed.

Exactly. I do feel for him with all the untimely injuries, but he's not doing himself any favours with some recent decisions imo. Definitely a case of more questions that answers atm.

Thomas may be out a while but i cant help but feel we have enough options to cover before we need to go out and get another loanee.

Magnay, Bignot, Boyce, Winfarrah even McLaughlin could fill in for Thomas.

We need another STRIKER ... FFS. Attacking is the problem.

Doesn't this back up the fact Bignot is on his way out....

Quoted from mariner2000

Doesn't this back up the fact Bignot is on his way out....

Couldn't agree more

Quoted from BottesfordMariner

We need another STRIKER ... FFS. Attacking is the problem.

I think we have to assume that Hurst can look for both strikers and defenders at the same time. It's not an either/or situation and I'd tend to doubt Hurst will be so obsessed with trying to get cover in at left-back that he will completely forget about the need to strengthen our attacking options!

However, I don't disagree that we ought to have enough defensive options available in the squad to cover and it does make you wonder if the rumours about Bignot wanting to depart are true.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

I seem to remember that he did actually talk about the left back position and the names Winfarrah and Magnay were both mentioned by PH as suitable cover. So why is this not reasonable now? As for left footed players being best in that position, I watched Graham Taylor and Brian Keeble play LB for Town for years and both were right footed.

Gary Croft was right footed too I think?

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

I think Gateshead is the wrong game to start Caine. Dover, was the right game!!!!!!!

Agree 100%

Quoted from Abdul19

Gary Croft was right footed too I think?

Kev Jobling as well?

Quoted from Quagmire

Kev Jobling as well?

Yep, but most footballers these days don't seem to be able to do much more than stand on their weaker foot!

Wasn't Jobling also theoretically a central midfielder? I seem to remember an injury crisis led to him playing in the middle for a few games and he was nonplussed that everyone was surprised how well he did there, because that had always been his position before Buckley converted him into a full-back!

I can understand not wanting to play Caine at left back against Gateshead (Rodman might well give him a difficult time), but he did well going forward against Nuneaton and I think he would have been good in the same role against Dover where we lacked someone wide running at defenders. I have not seen enough of him in a more defensive role to comment, time will tell.

Quoted from oldun

I can understand not wanting to play Caine at left back against Gateshead (Rodman might well give him a difficult time), but he did well going forward against Nuneaton and I think he would have been good in the same role against Dover where we lacked someone wide running at defenders. I have not seen enough of him in a more defensive role to comment, time will tell.

But Magnay played left back against Rodman in the play-offs!

Quoted from MuddyWaters

But Magnay played left back against Rodman in the play-offs!

Magnay should play on the left and either Bignot or Walker on the right,

Paul should be looking to bring a goalscorer in on loan not a full back.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

But Magnay played left back against Rodman in the play-offs!

If that is so, then we can surely play him there and use Bignot/Walker at RB. Maybe, thinking further ahead Boyce will be on his way back to Scunny (looks like they need a defender) and Magnay is cover for that position too. Anyway it is all supposition but I am not convinced it is our top priority.

Should've signed goodhall

I've heard The Lord Jesus isn't up to much at this time of year. Maybe get him in on a months loan?

Does appear the fans know more about players abilities positions what foot they play with also where we most need improvement more than the man thats in charge .

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

Should've signed goodhall

Wanted to stay in the NW didn't he?

Quoted from sutton mariner

I've heard The Lord Jesus isn't up to much at this time of year. Maybe get him in on a months loan?

JF has spoken to him personally but can't afford His wages.

Quoted from sutton mariner

I've heard The Lord Jesus isn't up to much at this time of year. Maybe get him in on a months loan?

Heard it was "nailed on" and we have already had the second coming when Matt Tees came back!

Awful decision to go into loan market for left back
Sends out a terrible message to Winfarrah, Bignot, Walker

Luton played a few youngsters last season and it didn't harm them much

Hard to defend Hurst for this move

Quoted from Stevie Saunders

Awful decision to go into loan market for left back
Sends out a terrible message to Winfarrah, Bignot, Walker

Luton played a few youngsters last season and it didn't harm them much

Hard to defend Hurst for this move

I don't think there is anyone better to judge whether Winfarrah is ready to take on left back full time than hurst. Hurst started out as a small winger then moved to left back so understands how long it takes to adapt. He has shown consistantly that he has a great eye for defenders. He is also well aware of our lack of goals and therefore keeping a water tight defence is crucial. If we can- why not strengthen?

Quoted from MuddyWaters

The general point is why give these players contracts if you don't trust them to do a job?

Because they're relatively cheap but you hope young players will progress over time ?....

Agree it looks strange at first glance and doesn't add up.
But let's look at the facts again...

1) Hurst says he wants Magnay at right back.

“Carl Magnay has played there quite a bit for Gateshead, but that moves him out of the right-back position where he’s been, so we need someone in really."

2) Winfarrah has already played left back (so must trust him to play there !)

"I'm not really one to talk, but it's just the stature and the physical nature of defending – particularly at the back post area – that needs to develop."

3) Paddy has NOT played left back !
[Don't ask me why Winfarrah didn't play wing back - Hurst keeping him focused on learning the left back slot ?]

Bignot (probably backup right back ?)

Talented though he is, not at all convinced Walker is suited to right back (let alone left back !)
Far too many mistakes in pre-season for me,
If you ask me he's very talented but better bombing forward at wing back or even right mid than defending.

So we've got Caine, we need another LB = 1 1st choice + 1 backup LB.
Case solved !?  

End of the day what's the crime ?
Improving the team ?

If you want a "new striker" you've got Pittman and Hannah to try first !

Makes perfect sense to get some cover in, i thought Winfarrah did really well when he came on but has he ever started a game? i thought he would start against dover and would have offered a bit more pace on the left but i think he would face a really different test against Gateshead on Saturday and i don't see a problem if Hurst thinks he is not quite ready for that, he is young and unexpereinced and players like that often need bedding in gently. If he plays on saturday and has a complete mare everyone on here would be giving it big licks about PH chucking a kid in and not getting adequete cover.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

Makes perfect sense to get some cover in, i thought Winfarrah did really well when he came on but has he ever started a game? i thought he would start against dover and would have offered a bit more pace on the left but i think he would face a really different test against Gateshead on Saturday and i don't see a problem if Hurst thinks he is not quite ready for that, he is young and unexpereinced and players like that often need bedding in gently. If he plays on saturday and has a complete mare everyone on here would be giving it big licks about PH chucking a kid in and not getting adequete cover.

That should make a few involved in this thread a little uncomfortable

I thought too that CW was a midfielder.  He only came on against Nuneaton because there was no alternative.  Nuneaton gave him so much space to run into even I would have looked good.  Doubt if Gatehead and Rodman will give him that much space.
Playing Caine on Saturday give me the shudders (not in a good way).

Quoted from The_Laughing_Mariner

I thought too that CW was a midfielder.  He only came on against Nuneaton because there was no alternative.  Nuneaton gave him so much space to run into even I would have looked good.  Doubt if Gatehead and Rodman will give him that much space.
Playing Caine on Saturday give me the shudders (not in a good way).

If Rodman plays like he did here we shouldn't have to worry about his defensive prowess as he was cack at defending.

Unfortunately, he was quite good at attacking most of the time. I'd have backed Aswad to keep him quiet, but not sure how a stand-in will do. Hopefully we can cope with his running well enough.

Quoted from Maringer

Unfortunately, he was quite good at attacking most of the time. I'd have backed Aswad to keep him quiet, but not sure how a stand-in will do. Hopefully we can cope with his running well enough.

I personally think Magnay is more than capable of dealing with Rodders. I'm just hoping Maddison fu@ks off to Peterborough as I see him as a much bigger threat.   UTM.

Quoted from barralad

That should make a few involved in this thread a little uncomfortable

I think most agree that he shouldn't play at Gateshead but should have played against Dover. Are those rose-tinted specs playing up?

Quoted from sutton mariner

I've heard The Lord Jesus isn't up to much at this time of year. Maybe get him in on a months loan?

He's so good he's so fine
Played left back for Palestine

He's so good he's so sweet
It's like the ball's nailed to his feet

He's so good he's the boss
fking awesome on the cross

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I think most agree that he shouldn't play at Gateshead

I won't mind if he does play, even if he makes mistakes !

Got to cut him some slack, he's learning his trade in that position.

Like all things, either you allow people to fail trying to improve or succeed or you don't.

Quoted from Civvy at last

He's so good he's so fine
Played left back for Palestine

He's so good he's so sweet
It's like the ball's nailed to his feet

He's so good he's the boss
fking awesome on the cross

LMAO

Quoted from sutton mariner

I've heard The Lord Jesus isn't up to much at this time of year. Maybe get him in on a months loan?

Wants to stay within commutable distance of Nazareth.

Who I believe play at the "New inn"  

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I think most agree that he shouldn't play at Gateshead but should have played against Dover. Are those rose-tinted specs playing up?

Hurst won't play a teenager in the empty stands of a part time club in a tin pot league game, but Arsene Wenger will throw one in at the deep end to play in a champions league game.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

Wants to stay within commutable distance of Nazareth.

He's very good on Player Manger 2014 ()

Quoted from 2578

Hurst won't play a teenager in the empty stands of a part time club in a tin pot league game, but Arsene Wenger will throw one in at the deep end to play in a champions league game.

It's not a tin pot League. Most of the clubs in the Conference National are full-time professional teams. A few smaller teams in here as well who have won promotion up from lower divisions and have earned their place in the same way that our relegation earned us a place here.

Completely fair, unless you think we're too 'massive' for the Conference.

I assume your comments about Arsenal are the lad at the back, Chambers. Looks a good young player and will probably be a future England international if his performances the last couple of games are anything to go by.

However, he's hardly wet behind the ears - he made 22 appearances for Southampton in the Premier League last season! Winfarrah has made a handful of appearances in the Conference and is a year and a half younger - there is absolutely no relevant comparison between the two players.

Quoted from 2578

Hurst won't play a teenager in the empty stands of a part time club in a tin pot league game, but Arsene Wenger will throw one in at the deep end to play in a champions league game.

It's a fair point but it's a bruising league (relatively) with lots of big players to deal with (especially for defenders)

Some managers will give lots of matches, some will be selective when they do, others will coach til they're fully ready.

What we know for sure is he's already played a small part at left back.
He might play him there again.
We'll see...

Oh Maringer, just seen your comment about the Arsenal player !
So perhaps it's not fair as I thought.
Anyway let's just treat the initial point made as a "should Hurst trust youth to play or mainly develop them first" type thing...

Sheesh Ryan Bird not even in the Portsmouth first team squad tonight, go get him Town, sod defenders.

Quoted from Nelly GTFC

Sheesh Ryan Bird not even in the Portsmouth first team squad tonight, go get him Town, sod defenders.

I think we could get him on a seasons loan if we tried hard enough,

As for a defender, there might not be anybody out there ,

In time for this week end anyway.

How old was Conor Townsend when we threw him into the Town side? Don't think he had many professional appearances under his belt before we gave him a chance in our first team.

He was a bit scrawny but looked composed and assured when he played. It can't just be down Winfarrah's physique.

Looking at soccerbase, Townsend would have been 18 and a half or thereabouts. One point to note is that he was making a debut 3 divisions below his club's level.

I'd be happy with Winfarrah playing on the left wing, but if they are only just now trying to convert him into a defender, he'll still have a lot to learn.

Quoted from Maringer

It's not a tin pot League. Most of the clubs in the Conference National are full-time professional teams. A few smaller teams in here as well who have won promotion up from lower divisions and have earned their place in the same way that our relegation earned us a place here.

Completely fair, unless you think we're too 'massive' for the Conference.

I assume your comments about Arsenal are the lad at the back, Chambers. Looks a good young player and will probably be a future England international if his performances the last couple of games are anything to go by.

However, he's hardly wet behind the ears - he made 22 appearances for Southampton in the Premier League last season! Winfarrah has made a handful of appearances in the Conference and is a year and a half younger - there is absolutely no relevant comparison between the two players.

How can you say it is not tin pot? The clue is in the title 'NON LEAGUE' I think you are only  saying it's not a tin pot league because we are in it, when we were a league club I never gave this league a 2nd thought, it was and still is a excrement NON LEAGUE for excrement clubs playing hoof it up dog excrement football.
Are you sure most clubs in this league are full time or you just making it up to prove a point? I can't be arsed to check but I would of thought about 50/50 apologise if I'm wrong.

As for the Arsenal lad he's hardly wet behind the ears as you put it because at some point his manager at Southampton as recognised his potential and given him a chance, at more or less the same age as Caine which is very relevant by comparison if you open your eyes.
As Ive said earlier I fully expect Cain out on loan this season at probably Gainsborough or Boston if Hurst remains in charge.

Quoted from RichMariner

How old was Conor Townsend when we threw him into the Town side? Don't think he had many professional appearances under his belt before we gave him a chance in our first team.

He was a bit scrawny but looked composed and assured when he played. It can't just be down Winfarrah's physique.

Exactly! You can throw Bennett in there as we'll end of the day if they are good enough let them play, and don't use them as scapegoats to justify selecting favoured players.

It's long been said that the Conference is basically equivalent to the 5th Division. From what I've seen since we were relegated, there isn't a great deal of difference between the standard of this division and the one above, though you are a little more likely to get a club such as Hyde crashing and burning here than in League Two.

A quick scan through the table and I reckon just over half of the team are full-time clubs at the moment (guesswork, admittedly). Still, it is needlessly insulting to the other teams (including the part-timers) as 'tin pot'. That's just the same thing we used to mock the Wednesday fans for their 'Massive' attitude.

If we make another couple of signings and have few injury problems, Winfarrah may well find himself out on loan at a lower division club. Rightly so, if he's not going to get many games here. I think it more likely that he'll appear here and there (probably in the Trophy matches) and only play more if he really proves himself in training and when he gets first team opportunities. His performance against Nuneaton was encouraging, early slip aside, but let's no go overboard about the lad.

Quoted from 2578

Exactly! You can throw Bennett in there as we'll end of the day if they are good enough let them play, and don't use them as scapegoats to justify selecting favoured players.

Why is Hurst assumed to be selecting favoured players? Winfarrah has made a handful of appearances, and Hurst obviously decided that an experienced professional such as McLaughlin would be the best choice for the game. Now, it might not have worked out as we hoped (due to a defensive error and a missed sitter), but there's no guarantee Winfarrah would have done any better!

I wish the young lad well and wouldn't mind if he gets a chance here and there, but let's not make out that he's going to be the second coming! A lot of time for him to develop yet.

One young player's development is not at the same rate as another. Rooney had the physique to play top division football at 16 - few others do. Similarly, Bennett was the exception rather than the rule and this is why he's now playing in the Premier League! Most young players don't make a real breakthrough in their teens.

Quoted from Maringer

However, he's hardly wet behind the ears - he made 22 appearances for Southampton in the Premier League last season!

And they paid £16m for him!

The usual course of events for a player to make the step up from youth team to full time first teamer is to give them 20 mins here and 30 mins there in games that are all but won, unless they are exceptionally talented or strong mentally and physically.

Winfarrah had to play last week because we had no other options and he played well but it has to be said that Nuneaton were sitting back and defending a lot.

I think he should maybe have gotten at least a half against a poor Dartford but to throw him in at Gateshead could shatter his confidence if he gets the runaround.

Not sure what the problem is as Magnay regularly played at left back for Gateshead and we still have Bignot for right back or Boyce who played there for Lincoln.

For me we need to strengthen the centre of midfield and of course another striker as IMO Connell is not the answer unless it is a very dubious question which is disappointing but Ryan Bird would get us flying!

Quoted from Maringer

I think it more likely that he'll appear here and there (probably in the Trophy matches) and only play more if he really proves himself in training and when he gets first team opportunities.

Isn't that the whole point though ?!
Training aside (tbf he did well in pre-season too !), it does sound like:
"He'll only get more chances once he starts getting more chances"  

Can you see any irony in your statement ?

Perhaps the GENERAL points are...
- why are so many given contracts (e.g. I'Anson) to barely feature and when they ARE brought in and do well, don't seem to be rewarded with keeping their place in the side OR we don't seem to be able to keep hold of them.
- why are we spending a fortune on an academy for young players only for them to not get the 1st team chances they perhaps deserve ?

In short, are we "trusting youth" enough ?

I know it's a matter of opinion "how good they are" or whether they're ready.
But how many players that have gone out on loan ever seem to come back and not just leave the club later ?
I'd genuinely be interested to know this because I can't think of any that stay after going out on loan !?

My point is if they're "going out on loan to gain experience", is that experience helping or MAKING them into better players ?
i.e. If it's a waste of time, should we consider offering more 1ST TEAM experience and see how that goes instead ?

Now you might argue "Well if they can't cut it at Boston they won't cut it here..."
Well if we're arguably not noticing the talent at BP or in pre-season (are we ?), can we be sure we're noticing it elsewhere ?

I just wonder whether letting players chip in more HERE might be more profitabale for what they learn about the job they're ultimately being trained for. (i.e. in Grimsby not in Boston !)

End of the day, you can hold players back all day until they get bored to tears.
But until they get on the pitch for GTFC certain aspects of their game won't gain any improvement as matchday players for GTFC.

In short, isn't it better to "try and suceed" (or maybe "try, fail, learn and keep working) than to not try as much as we maybe should ?
Just wondering...

No irony. Young players only tend to play if they are absolutely required to do so. It's always been the way of the world.

He looked decent the other night so I hope he makes the most of his chances.

Quoted from Maringer

Young players only tend to play if they are absolutely required to do so. It's always been the way of the world.

Suppose so, is it right though ?

Surely there's something to be said for teams like Crewe who make it their business (literally) to introduce, improve and sell on young players for a whopping profit ?

I know we're not blessed by geography but the basic principle of playing youth at 1st team level to improve seems to make sense.

The club have made good steps recently in bringing in promising looking players like e.g. Winfarrah, Walker, Humble

Regarding Winfarrah you say "I hope he makes the most of his chances" and so do I !

But it seems to suggest if he doesn't instantly hit the ground running we won't wait too long for youth improvement (from playing games) to take shape ?

Must admit, I do get the impression the bar of expectation for a young player is set higher than a fellow senior pro.
After all, we don't say "I hope [seniorpro] makes the most of his chances" do we ?
Or maybe we do...

Anyway just think the club might benefit from a good think about it, especially if there's a longer term plan to play more youth in the future.

Quoted from Civvy at last

He's so good he's so fine
Played left back for Palestine

He's so good he's so sweet
It's like the ball's nailed to his feet

He's so good he's the boss
fking awesome on the cross

Ace!

Where's that from?

Quoted from RoboCod

He's very good on Player Manger 2014 ()

Nice one!


Don't you mean the 0001 version though?

Quoted from 120797

It's a fair point but it's a bruising league (relatively) with lots of big players to deal with (especially for defenders)

Some managers will give lots of matches, some will be selective when they do, others will coach til they're fully ready.

What we know for sure is he's already played a small part at left back.
He might play him there again.
We'll see...

They're even more bruising lower down, so when young lads get loaned out to clubs in the Northern Prem or whatever, they'll get knocked about even more.

Well not saying we should never loan young players out but only tonight made a point in reply to Maringer considering whether it's worthwhile to GENERALLY consider letting youth gain more 1st team experience here at Town. (instead of going out on loan to develop)

So in short, I agree with you.

Quoted from 120797

Well not saying we should never loan young players out but only tonight made a point in reply to Maringer considering whether it's worthwhile to GENERALLY consider letting youth gain more 1st team experience here at Town. (instead of going out on loan to develop)

So in short, I agree with you.

Hurrah!    

I can remember a young scrawny kid called John McDermot get his first game away at Bradford playing on the wing. It took a while for him to convert to a defensive role and he didn't do too bad, but still kept his attacking skills. Similarities with Caine? Yes.

Quoted from oldun

I can remember a young scrawny kid called John McDermot get his first game away at Bradford playing on the wing. It took a while for him to convert to a defensive role and he didn't do too bad, but still kept his attacking skills. Similarities with Caine? Yes.

Nail, head......

But for every John McDermott, there are a dozen other youngsters who aren't going to make the grade.

There seems to be a great deal of certainty amongst some on this board that Hurst won't ever pick the right players, Hurst won't ever give young players a chance, Hurst won't ever play a game without LJL, Hurst won't ever select the right formation or tactics etc etc.

As examples that giving young player a run out is the clearly only way forward, we're given a player signed for £16 million by Arsenal, Ryan Bennett signed for a few million by Norwich and John McDermott, arguably one of the best English full-backs of his generation. It's funny how the Tom Corners and Darren Mansarams of the world aren't used as examples, isn't it?

Much as I hope Winfarrah does well, you can't seriously compare him to some of the best young players in the country! Hurst was an extremely experienced defender so I'm willing to trust his judgement as to whether or not Winfarrah is ready just yet. Personally, I would probably have played him as wing-back against Dover, but then I've not seen him in training so don't know whether or not he was ready for the task. For all the credit of his performance against Nuneaton, they didn't really attempt to attack. I'm not sure how well Winfarrah would have coped with Dover's strong and pacy No. 7 who caused even our senior defenders some problems at times.

If Paul Hurst signs a loan player, does this player come with a guarantee to play better than what we already have?

No guarantees in football that I've ever heard of. However, Hurst has always done pretty well with his defensive loan market signings, so I'd expect anybody incoming to cover for Thomas to be capable enough.

The struggle is in finding good attackers to bring in on loan. Most managers like to keep a wide array of attacking options available to them, so it must be more difficult to sign good attackers on loan than defenders. Good youngsters from higher division clubs (Championship or thereabouts), would seem to be a reasonable option - if you can persuade them to come out on loan! Another Martin Paterson style loanee would be very nice indeed, but they are very hard to come by.

Was disappointed to see PH looking for a loan signing. He said the squad's defence was settled - then one injury and
he's trying to recruit! Something doesn't add up there...

He's given contracts to Winfarrah & 2 other youngsters. This is the time to find out if he was right to do so IMO.
Against that, you could say CW is a left-winger and it's unfair to play a youngster in an important game out of
his natural position. Equally, though CW looked decent against Nuneaton, he didn't have too much defending to do.

But what happens when we get in a loan player? The new guy doesn't know the set-up or the other players, and
we have a big bruising left-back of the type that Rodman (on form) used to run past routinely. How does that help?
Let's not forget, too, that there often wasn't any end-product to a Rodman mazy run.

I actually think CW is the right type to play against Rodman - and we'll know better about the young lad's capabilities
if we do. How much are we risking?...well let's not forget Aswad scored the winner for Huddersfield last season!

I really don't see the point in having a youth system if you're not going to play the lads that you eventually bring through.

You'll never know if a youngster will 'make the grade' if you only give him 10 minutes here and there.

I don't understand why we're prepared to give a youngster from another club (ie Townsend) lots of game time yet we don't give our own youngsters the same opportunity - we may as well scrap the youth team entirely and simpy loan any youngsters from Hull etc without the expense.

Arguably the greatest GTFC side since the war was built on a foundation of local lads from the youth team.

Genuine Town legends came up through the youth system because we gave them a chance.

Drinky played from 17
Lundy played from 19
Dave Moore played from 19
Kevin Moore played from 18
Wilky played from 19
Lever played from 18
Macca played from 18

We're playing in the fifth tier for crying out loud!  I could understand the reticence to throw someone into the side in a championship game but we're non-league, if we can't produce youngsters who can hack it at this level we may as well not bother!

The only way this club can go forward (without having to rely on JF funding) is for the club to concentrate more resource on the youth team and give these lads a chance.

The fundamental fact is that most of the good young local lads these days are hoovered up by the Academies of bigger clubs or even just those in the League. Wasn't there an article about Grimsby youngster in the press recently who has joined Scunny or perhaps even moved from their academy to a bigger club? It doesn't necessarily follow that we're going to get the same class of young player in the future as we did in the past.

Many of the players you name came through when we were a 2nd Division club and these days, the difference in money available between the divisions is very large. Not to forget that it is almost unprecedented the way that so many talented local lads came through at a similar time (don't forget Tony Ford!).

We're a 5th tier club and the way in why the system works now, we've got 5th tier youngsters. Any better young players are more likely to move on League Academies either straight away or by being 'poached' in the way that Barlow was the other year. Who was the last home developed youngster who played for us before moving on to play at a higher level? I can't think of any in the past 4 or 5 years. Bear in mind that Bennett arrived after being released by Ipswich and was in the team quickly.

I suppose you could say I'Anson who is on the books of a top level Spanish club, but he's mostly played against amateur clubs for Elche's reserves so far so I'm not sure he counts.

Hopefully one or two of our current batch of youngsters will be good enough to force their way into the team, but recent history doesn't indicate that this is particularly likely.

I have faith in and hopes for all 3 of our first year pro's but their development is not an exact science and nothing is guaranteed. We must expect the management and coaching staff know them better than us and it is their judgement about when and where they play. I think they do believe in them, after all they game them pro contracts. Circumstances will dictate when they get their chance. Some young players develop well others stall and do not really improve. For every Kevin Drinkell or Tony Ford there will be half a dozen Mansarams and Bores. That's just the way it is. Having said that, I did think Caine could have been useful for us against Dover.

Agree he should have been given the chance to show what he can do against Dover, the more his chances are limited the more pressure there is on him when he does play not to make any mistakes. Young players like Caine should be given a decent run in the team & what better time than now when we have an injury to our first choice LB.

Quoted from MrsMariner

Agree he should have been given the chance to show what he can do against Dover, the more his chances are limited the more pressure there is on him when he does play not to make any mistakes. Young players like Caine should be given a decent run in the team & what better time than now when we have an injury to our first choice LB.

Nail on head!

And surely, although I realise it works both ways, cw will know rodders' game inside out after playing against him in training daily

Quoted from Quagmire

I really don't see the point in having a youth system if you're not going to play the lads that you eventually bring through.

You'll never know if a youngster will 'make the grade' if you only give him 10 minutes here and there.

I don't understand why we're prepared to give a youngster from another club (ie Townsend) lots of game time yet we don't give our own youngsters the same opportunity - we may as well scrap the youth team entirely and simpy loan any youngsters from Hull etc without the expense.

I think the fundamental problem is that the decision to retain the youth team players is made by the first team manager, who only thinks a few weeks and months ahead. Players mature at different rates and they are not always ready for first team football as they approach the age where they would need to be retained as a pro. Quite often it might be a better decision for the club to keep one or two players who are not quite ready, but might be in a year's time, on a very low wage.

Quoted from Civvy at last

He's so good he's so fine
Played left back for Palestine

He's so good he's so sweet
It's like the ball's nailed to his feet

He's so good he's the boss
fking awesome on the cross

civvy at last,    I've altered you poem to be more appropriate to Town  .

His name is Scott Brown
now plays for Mighty Town.

He's so good he's so great
had a spell at Ashton Gate.

He's so good on the ball
an inspiration to us all.

He's so good and lacks fatigue
and will help us win the league.

He will never let us down
his name is Scott Brown.

UTM..

Although he should be given a fine
For missing an open goal on the fucking line

Quoted from Maringer

It's funny how the Tom Corners and Darren Mansarams of the world aren't used as examples, isn't it?

True !
Then again can't remember Mansaram too well but it's asking a lot of players like Corner to shine in a team where everyone else is badly struggling.

Quoted from Maringer

For all the credit of his performance against Nuneaton, they didn't really attempt to attack.

Good point and he did make the early member up when he came on too.

But maybe it comes back to my point about learning from experience too.

Anyway I trust Hurst on this one but don't think he should be too frightened about him making mistakes.
After all, the fans generally want Winfarrah so how can they really complain if he isn't an instant success ?

Personally I think in general Hurst worries far too much about negative reactions.

Quoted from 137

I actually think CW is the right type to play against Rodman - and we'll know better about the young lad's capabilities if we do. How much are we risking?

We'll learn more - a good point !
Especially in a game we're not really expected to win too ?

Then again...
Would he play v Alfreton TOO ?

If he has a blinder v Gateshead fans will want him in for Alfteton 2 days later too - asking a lot !?  
At what point would we give the young lad an arguably needed break ?

On balance, perhaps depending on whether you think Anyother (e.g. Bignot) is behind him or not, I'd be tempted to keep him for Alfreton instead.

It's a tricky one !