Missing the Point

The issue here, is not the frustrating start to the season,but the continuing failure to address the issues  that were apparent from December last year.
Make no mistake we lost any chance of promotion in the January transfer window when we failed to consolidate our team,whilst all those teams around us did.
It has been glaringly apparent to even a 12 year old we have been in need of a decent striker,we failed to address this in the January window,we failed to address this in the close season.
I believe we are one or two players away from a promotion winning team,please address this before the the transfer window closes, and we are condemned from another season of mediocrity.
Mr Fenty please reflect on what your legacy will be to Grimsby Town Football Club, whilst no one can deny your investment and support,is there not a moral imperative to at least return this club to the position it once was when you took over.Please do not spoil the ship for a h'apporth of tar ,we really need to invest in a top quality striker.
Remember you are in the entertainment industry and at the present time you clearly are not.

Quoted from friskneymariner

The issue here, is not the frustrating start to the season,but the continuing failure to address the issues  that were apparent from December last year.
Make no mistake we lost any chance of promotion in the January transfer window when we failed to consolidate our team,whilst all those teams around us did.
It has been glaringly apparent to even a 12 year old we have been in need of a decent striker,we failed to address this in the January window,we failed to address this in the close season.
I believe we are one or two players away from a promotion winning team,please address this before the the transfer window closes, and we are condemned from another season of mediocrity.
Mr Fenty please reflect on what your legacy will be to Grimsby Town Football Club, whilst no one can deny your investment and support,is there not a moral imperative to at least return this club to the position it once was when you took over.Please do not spoil the ship for a h'apporth of tar ,we really need to invest in a top quality striker.
Remember you are in the entertainment industry and at the present time you clearly are not.

That is all fair comment.

I thought we had turned the elusive corner when we played so well against Huddersfield, but the lack of investment came back once again to bite us, as you rightly say.

If we don't invest, we wont get promoted its as simple as that really.

I think to clarify investment - going hell for leather for a player that is sought after by other clubs who will clearly make a difference to the current team.  

I for one do not think its the players we have , its the way that they have to play , and thats the orders from the manager.. lump it to lenny and hope seems to be the plan.. instead of lump it to lenny and he knows where to lay it off to because its someons designated job to head strait there and so on. midfield dont get foreward enough to help because they know that they are set up to defend and must be there to defend, we prob have the best back line in this league, and should be able to cope without another 2/3  getting in there way, and leaving us short going foreward ,, attack is the best form of defence. and we should be making the other team  woried about us rather than the other way round

Paul Hurst has a budget, he has not spent it as far as i am aware.

This is not JF's decision, it's P.H's

I am not aware of any requests from the manager being turned down when it comes to signing new players.

We have to operate within a set means otherwise the overall position of the club may suffer.

It is Hursts job to identify, research and recruit players. If he doesnt spend the whole budget, spend it wisely or build his squad correctly thats his fault, its not upto the board to say do you know what Paul,,,you have wasted all that money so here you go...have a load more and another go...or to start selecting players or refuse to sign players he wants because they dont fancy them.

At this level PH is the sole trader when it comes to the playing budget and he has to have the final say and responsibility for spending it.

Hurst is still looking for players, I understand? Hopefully we'll see another attacker or two brought in before too long.

Quoted from moosey_club

Paul Hurst has a budget, he has not spent it as far as i am aware.

This is not JF's decision, it's P.H's

I am not aware of any requests from the manager being turned down when it comes to signing new players.

We have to operate within a set means otherwise the overall position of the club may suffer.

It is Hursts job to identify, research and recruit players. If he doesnt spend the whole budget, spend it wisely or build his squad correctly thats his fault, its not upto the board to say do you know what Paul,,,you have wasted all that money so here you go...have a load more and another go...or to start selecting players or refuse to sign players he wants because they dont fancy them.

At this level PH is the sole trader when it comes to the playing budget and he has to have the final say and responsibility for spending it.

To be fair Moosey, we don't have the biggest budget in the league, i am pretty sure we have a top 5 budget though, if you deliver a manager a top 5 budget and two years in a row you get a top 5 finish then surely that is not a bad performance.

This season we have another top 5 budget which i believe is again smaller than previous seasons, so i believe we will get a top 5 team again and i think anything else would be a bonus, to guarantee getting out of this league you have to win it which is tough but you have a far better chance if you have the biggest budget. Luton, Crawley, Fleetwood and Mansfield all had league winning budgets.

I imagine if we had the kind of budget that those 4 league winners had previously we would not have missed out on quite so many transfer targets and players would be more willing to relocate, i also imagine that decisions such as not trying to get Rodman when we had the chance after signing Mackreth was a financial one, these are things the other 4 clubs would not have worried about.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

To be fair Moosey, we don't have the biggest budget in the league, i am pretty sure we have a top 5 budget though, if you deliver a manager a top 5 budget and two years in a row you get a top 5 finish then surely that is not a bad performance.

This season we have another top 5 budget which i believe is again smaller than previous seasons, so i believe we will get a top 5 team again and i think anything else would be a bonus, to guarantee getting out of this league you have to win it which is tough but you have a far better chance if you have the biggest budget. Luton, Crawley, Fleetwood and Mansfield all had league winning budgets.

I imagine if we had the kind of budget that those 4 league winners had previously we would not have missed out on quite so many transfer targets and players would be more willing to relocate, i also imagine that decisions such as not trying to get Rodman when we had the chance after signing Mackreth was a financial one, these are things the other 4 clubs would not have worried about.

Bearing in mind the positive impact that promotion would have on a new stadium project and bearing in mind that Mr Fenty has categorically stated that he will not prop up BP indefinitely, when do you think that the club should go all out with a league winning budget?

From what I've been told, the bogle deal may not be that dead in the water as yet

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Bearing in mind the positive impact that promotion would have on a new stadium project and bearing in mind that Mr Fenty has categorically stated that he will not prop up BP indefinitely, when do you think that the club should go all out with a league winning budget?

i don't necessarily think the club should go all out with the budget, I am making the point that we are not competing financially with the clubs that are winning this league so i think expecting the manager to produce a title winning team is probably a bit much, not saying that it wont happen because i think he has built a good squad and they will go close, but we have a nearly budget and will probably be the nearly men. I do think if more focus and finances went on having a successful team than a new ground the club would be more successful, getting back in the league should be the priority over the ground.

Quoted from friskneymariner

The issue here, is not the frustrating start to the season,but the continuing failure to address the issues  that were apparent from December last year.
Make no mistake we lost any chance of promotion in the January transfer window when we failed to consolidate our team,whilst all those teams around us did.

Just doesn't add up at all !

Are we seriously expected to believe that way back fans were thinking....

" Oh well we've really blown it now !
Still, we'll get to the playoffs for sure, then we'll fail there ! "

Bloody ridiculous !

Quoted from friskneymariner

we really need to invest in a top quality striker.

Guess we do, could be Pittman though ! (or someone else you just don't know...)

3 games in. let's not panic.
The club aren't stupid, guess they're just taking a more measured view.

Very easy to urine money up the wall quickly only to regret it later !

Quoted from headingly_mariner

i don't necessarily think the club should go all out with the budget, I am making the point that we are not competing financially with the clubs that are winning this league so i think expecting the manager to produce a title winning team is probably a bit much, not saying that it wont happen because i think he has built a good squad and they will go close, but we have a nearly budget and will probably be the nearly men. I do think if more focus and finances went on having a successful team than a new ground the club would be more successful, getting back in the league should be the priority over the ground.

Ta, agree with all of that. But being nearly men isn't really good enough is it?

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Bearing in mind the positive impact that promotion would have on a new stadium project and bearing in mind that Mr Fenty has categorically stated that he will not prop up BP indefinitely, when do you think that the club should go all out with a league winning budget?

And what do we do if we have a massive budget and fail to get promoted?

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

From what I've been told, the bogle deal may not be that dead in the water as yet

From who Woz?

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Ta, agree with all of that. But being nearly men isn't really good enough is it?

No but I think if that is the issue we shouldn't really be pointing the finger at the manager

Quoted from friskneymariner

The issue here, is not the frustrating start to the season,but the continuing failure to address the issues  that were apparent from December last year.
Make no mistake we lost any chance of promotion in the January transfer window when we failed to consolidate our team,whilst all those teams around us did.
It has been glaringly apparent to even a 12 year old we have been in need of a decent striker,we failed to address this in the January window,we failed to address this in the close season.
I believe we are one or two players away from a promotion winning team,please address this before the the transfer window closes, and we are condemned from another season of mediocrity.
Mr Fenty please reflect on what your legacy will be to Grimsby Town Football Club, whilst no one can deny your investment and support,is there not a moral imperative to at least return this club to the position it once was when you took over.Please do not spoil the ship for a h'apporth of tar ,we really need to invest in a top quality striker.
Remember you are in the entertainment industry and at the present time you clearly are not.

Errr we signed a striker on loan who had scored virtually a goal a game with his previous club...

Quoted from mariner91

And what do we do if we have a massive budget and fail to get promoted?

That's the conundrum, isn't it? How dependent is the clubs financial future on the development of a new stadium and how dependent is the development of a new stadium on getting back in the league? I'm sure that the Board will have all the various answers to this.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

To be fair Moosey, we don't have the biggest budget in the league, i am pretty sure we have a top 5 budget though, if you deliver a manager a top 5 budget and two years in a row you get a top 5 finish then surely that is not a bad performance.

This season we have another top 5 budget which i believe is again smaller than previous seasons, so i believe we will get a top 5 team again and i think anything else would be a bonus, to guarantee getting out of this league you have to win it which is tough but you have a far better chance if you have the biggest budget. Luton, Crawley, Fleetwood and Mansfield all had league winning budgets.

I imagine if we had the kind of budget that those 4 league winners had previously we would not have missed out on quite so many transfer targets and players would be more willing to relocate, i also imagine that decisions such as not trying to get Rodman when we had the chance after signing Mackreth was a financial one, these are things the other 4 clubs would not have worried about.

But Luton had a lot bigger attendance to go with that budget and it took them 5 seasons to get promoted. Their average attendance was higher than we had when we were a League 1 and 2 club and that extra revenue helps.

Quoted from rancido

But Luton had a lot bigger attendance to go with that budget and it took them 5 seasons to get promoted. Their average attendance was higher than we had when we were a League 1 and 2 club and that extra revenue helps.

I'm not questioning where those 4 teams got the budget from I am just saying we do not have that kind of league winning budget available to us, I'm not even saying we should up the budget I'm just pointing out that the last 4 league winners have been the big spenders. we may win the league but with the budget we have it's an uphill task for the manager.

In response to 80's glory yes it was apparent we failed to strengthen our squad to any significant extent in the January window,to those who attend every home and away game it was evident that we were lacking in the ability to  break teams down as the number of goals scored demonstrate,after the first leg against Gateshead had we taken our chances the tie would have been over.

Going back to the original topic of this thread whilst I have been critical of our early season performances I do believe a quality central midfield player and striker would place us in a very strong position to push for the title should we also adopt a more positive approach in our home performances.

I would also add that I have assumed that Arnold will provide added quality, not be another Colbeck, and Pitman will build on the promise shown on saturday.

Quoted from friskneymariner

In response to 80's glory yes it was apparent we failed to strengthen our squad to any significant extent in the January window,to those who attend every home and away game it was evident that we were lacking in the ability to  break teams down as the number of goals scored demonstrate,after the first leg against Gateshead had we taken our chances the tie would have been over.

Well no worries, that's your opinion.

Not sure how you can speak for everyone attending every home and away game but that's another matter.

Personally I see the failures at Gateshead as 'tactical' not down to missing a hatful of chances.
I remember we went 1-0 down by not pressing them enough, then when we did, got on top.
So I remember we were playing catch up and made things difficult for ourselves.
I accept we were better overall 1st leg and perhaps deserved to win but don't particularly remember a hatful of glaring chances missed.

You say "ability to break teams down as the number of goals scored demonstrate"
In all fairness it may be true but it doesn't demonstrate it to be true.
Perhaps it was more of a desire to defend, shut up shop or take points (to secure that playoff place) and NOT attack which was the reason.

Who knows, we've got our opinions.
But I'm not putting the ultimate failure of the playoffs down to the strikers.
For me it boiled down to a bit of bad luck (sending off) then how we stopped attacking when we pulled it back to 1-1.
So yes, I think Hurst cocked up tactically on this one but not gonna be too harsh on him, I give him credit for getting us there over 46 games.

Does anyone know what budgets Luton, Mansfield, Fleetwood etc had when they go promoted? Does anyone know what our rivals have this year? If so, quote the numbers and ideally your sources.

Anyone, bar Bristol Rovers, who has a budget bigger than us must be getting oodles of cash from their sugar-daddy. We've got the second biggest average attendance and a pretty large commercial operation, and on top of that we can't make ends meet so we get several £100,000s of loans/bail-out from the directors every year.

Even with the windmill guy, do FGR really have a bigger budget?

Who is bankrolling Gateshead and Eastbourne (with a fraction of our attendance)? How much are they getting in hand-outs?

Who has received £1m plus fees for players recently?

I'm prepared to be convinced by facts, but until someone shows the numbers, I just don't see us having anything but the second biggest budget in this league.

Not only the failure of the playoffs but the whole season was blighted by the lack of goals,just look at the final table.Defence was adequate and it was only down to the relatively few goals we had scored against us that we finished in the playoffs.Surely you are not attempting to advocate our lack of goals for, is not a problem and has been for a considerable time.If you are I would suggest you have a good look at last years league table.

So you would like to leave it to luck as whether we are promoted or not would,I would prefer it to be on footballing ability,don't think I will be investing in rabbits feet yet.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Does anyone know what budgets Luton, Mansfield, Fleetwood etc had when they go promoted? Does anyone know what our rivals have this year? If so, quote the numbers and ideally your sources.

Anyone, bar Bristol Rovers, who has a budget bigger than us must be getting oodles of cash from their sugar-daddy. We've got the second biggest average attendance and a pretty large commercial operation, and on top of that we can't make ends meet so we get several £100,000s of loans/bail-out from the directors every year.

Even with the windmill guy, do FGR really have a bigger budget?

Who is bankrolling Gateshead and Eastbourne (with a fraction of our attendance)? How much are they getting in hand-outs?

Who has received £1m plus fees for players recently?

I'm prepared to be convinced by facts, but until someone shows the numbers, I just don't see us having anything but the second biggest budget in this league.

Eastbourne?  

I'm told that the Eastleigh owner has spent a lot on players this season by a bloke we know who is deeply involved in the Conference South. Some of their signings have come down a couple of divisions to play for the club, haven't they, in a similar way that the Crawley signings did? This means very high wages.

Dale Whatshisface at FGR has been spending buckets of money for a few seasons now. Just look at the long, long list of strikers they've had on their books at times. What gets my goat about this is that Vince has made most of his money at the expense of taxpayers through subsidies for 'green' energy.

I don't think that the Mansfield owner spent a vast amount on players, did he? Most of his money probably went on his wife!  

I think there was a substantial spending there, but something just clicked with them and they went on a ridiculous winning run to earn promotion.

No idea about any of the others, but I've read that Gateshead have spent a good bit on wages this season and the fact that Rodman signed for them is probably indicative of this.

When we were relegated, I think we were expecting it to be a fight between the handful of 'bigger' clubs to win promotion with one or two smaller clubs making a challenge here and there. However, what has actually occurred is that Crawley and Fleetwood have spent their way to the title, which has been a surprise as they were both tiny clubs before splashing the cash. No surprise that Luton eventually got it right last season, or Cambridge for that matter, but it remains to be seen whether the Nouveau riche clubs will be the ones who manage to get up this season. It's our job to try and stop them.

Longer-term, I can't help but think that some of these clubs will eventually drop back down when the money runs out. I see that Crawley are doing pretty well in League One, yet only managed to draw just over 2,200 fans to their home game the other night! How can that possibly be sustainable in the long term?

Eastleigh must've offered James Constable a very good amount to make him leave Oxford.

Quoted from friskneymariner

Surely you are not attempting to advocate our lack of goals for, is not a problem and has been for a considerable time.

I'd say it's been the case for decades !
Please name me 1 Town manager in living memory who scored hatfuls of goals ?
And then see if you can figure out why...
What I'm saying is rightly or wrongly (wrongly IMO but can understand why) we set up to be strong and the back and work from there.
You think a new manager is suddenly gonna change the pattern overnight and go all guns blazing when the fans are reacting to every disappointment or defeat even if we're attacking more trying our best ?

Quoted from friskneymariner

So you would like to leave it to luck as whether we are promoted or not would,I would prefer it to be on footballing ability,don't think I will be investing in rabbits feet yet.

Luck is always a factor but no, I'd like as much quality as we can get.
What's your suggestion again ?

Alan Buckley
Paul Groves
Mike Newell

Assume you're replying Laughing Mariner ?

Well Buckley ground out his fair share of 1-0's and 0-0's didn't he ?
As for Newell and Groves I'd find it suprising as they were both involved in relegation battles ?
Wasn't Groves at the helm when we went down ?
Newell ? Nuff said...

Anyway that's my opinion.

Even when we was struggling in the old 1st division under Buckley the team always attacked and we often got 4-0 and 5-0 wins in a season .
I cant remember Hurst having any big wins under his time here which is surprising considering we was in the top 5 for most of the last two seasons

Perhaps following your logic 80's glory, a dozen sprigs of heather, a couple of horseshoes and a side order of chicken bones.

Quoted from 120797

Assume you're replying Laughing Mariner ?

Well Buckley ground out his fair share of 1-0's and 0-0's didn't he ?
As for Newell and Groves I'd find it suprising as they were both involved in relegation battles ?
Wasn't Groves at the helm when we went down ?
Newell ? Nuff said...

Anyway that's my opinion.

I assume TLM was talking about during their playing careers?  I think the question would have been better worded "Which Town managers teams have been free-scoring"?

Quoted from friskneymariner

Perhaps following your logic 80's glory, a dozen sprigs of heather, a couple of horseshoes and a side order of chicken bones.

It's not doing the Scunts any good at the minute  

As Biccys said, I answered the question which Town managers scored bucket loads of goals?

Alright then  Lawrie Mac, scored 100 goals in one season. 88 in league

Quoted from 120797

Please name me 1 Town manager in living memory who scored hatfuls of goals ?

For a time, Scott and Hurst.

Quoted from Abdul19

For a time, Scott and Hurst.

Once Suarez is back I have genuine concerns we won't even outscore Barcelona this season.

Quoted from Biccys

I assume TLM was talking about during their playing careers?  I think the question would have been better worded "Which Town managers teams have been free-scoring"?

Thanks Biccys point taken, I could have phrased it better.