The Team, The Manager, The Season

Didn't bother coming on here yesterday after the game because I knew there would be some very angry fans.

Yesterday was a case of bad finishing and poor final balls.
I generally don't think we played that bad, however it was just them two things that cost us the game, in my opinion.

We could play Macclesfield ten times this season and probably beat them in 8.

The Team

I can see why Hurst made the changes yesterday and I don't blame him for making them.
Disley and Monkhouse were replaced, as the guys are the wrong side of 30 and had played 60 minutes against 11.

Arnold was replaced because the lad worked his socks off aswell on Saturday and probably needed the break.

I was disappointed with Mackreth yesterday.
Numerous of times the lad got himself into great positions or he beat his man, but his final ball was dire.
A couple of better balls would of won us the game in my opinion, and his performance yesterday showed me why he is probably at the level he his.

He reminded me of a poor mans Aaron Lennon, lots of energy and can generally beat a man, but his final delivery is always lacking.

I also have to give abit of stick to Bogle yesterday.
For a guy who is six foot odd, he needs to be winning more headers than he is doing.

I personally think he needs to be abit tougher aswell and to try hold the ball better.

He seemed to be getting abit of a hard time against their centre backs yesterday and struggled with it.
The same when we played Torquay.... The guy just needs to be more aggressive.


The Manager

Would I get rid of him? ..... No, not yet.

I think we have to give the guy at least 15 games before we make any decisions.
If we are mid table after 15, then yes, we probably should be looking at it.

The thing that frustrates me with Hurst is his lack of motivation from the sidelines.
Don't get me wrong, not all managers are shouters, but you even get a little bit of passion with them aswell (someone like Arsene Wenger), but with Hurst, nothing.

I think, like Bogle, he needs to toughen up abit... Start getting at the players when its not working or they are looking out of sorts.

Do we need any more players, potentially yes.


The Season

Despite operation promotion, I never expected us to win the league, however I would of liked us to be challenging for the title.

I always thought the playoffs should be our minimum achievement, however it is disappointing to see that we could possibly already be out of the title race with 7 games gone.

Now people are saying, but there's plenty of time and Mansfield did this, etc, etc.
Yes, I appreciate that, but a 12 point gap is still big at this point of the season.

Put it this way, I would rather be in Forest Greens position than ours at the minute.

We ARE already playing catch up, which is disappointing so early in the seasons.


Lets see where we are at the middle / end of October.
If we are not sat in a play off position by then, then Fenty will have a big decision to make.

Hopefully we are back on track on Saturday.

UTM.

So basically give him more time after having four and a half years ?
What we thinking 6 years ? Ten years ?

If you read his post he says 15 games

Quoted from grimps

So basically give him more time after having four and a half years ?
What we thinking 6 years ? Ten years ?

No,   6 games or ten games .

Your opinion is as relevant as any on here but I have to disagree about giving the manager so much time to turn it around
A leopard never changes his spots and his attitudes and tactics have remained the same during the last four years, he won't change because he genuinely believes in them
It's not about him or the players though the bigger picture is the club the size of the support and its future under his tenure,and your middle of the road approach will not bring back the dwindling support

He is probably still in a job because he is computer literate.

It'll go the same as every other year if we don't act very quickly. We'll wait til November, hit some decent form and believe the bloke has changed. January comes he'll rotate yet again, ruin our chances at the league but claim a change now will be daft. We'll hit some decent form, make the play offs and cross our bloody fingers again.

I'm flipping sick of Hurst ruining seasons by November with his shite ideology of changing the side, to keep doing it so stubbornly is absolutely inexcusable and for my mind he has to go. More so this year because we do have a good squad and Ive finally had enough of the bloke flipping things up.

My favourite quote from his post match 'It's easy for fans to say changes weren't right after the game is lost'

No Paul, we all bemoaned your stupid rotation policy before that.

Buckley on RH yesterday before the game said (in so many words) he always had his best 11 in his mind from day one; he did a head count after a hard game; and however many of those XI were fit they'd play every week
He also said you get 'trends and fashions' in footy and it has almost become a buzzword that a manager rotates

It is almost like Hurst overcomplicates things...I could not see how you would drop all three of Disley, Monkhouse and Arnold.

Strong squads (on paper!) are all well and good but surely PH must think "I better use this lot otherwise what's the point of bringing them in" rather than "we played bloody well v Lincoln with 10 men so let's go again"

Danny East - another case in point. He is young, looks as fit as a fiddle, and has played really well last 2 games; surely he can play another game?

I'm not necessarily a Hurst basher - I think he has many good qualities and judging by the way the team fought on Saturday the players are united and behind him - but please stop tinkering.

Having said all that for 43 minutes we dominated the game, played some good stuff and never looked troubled; had we scored blah blah blah
But if you are wasteful one end of pitch and careless at the other it undermines everything and you cannot win matches

Still behind Hurst but he knows/we know it can;t go on much longer

Quote "changes are not to blame" well I'd like to know what is to blame then, if pro's are tired after just 6 games something's not right!

Quoted from cmackenzie4

Quote "changes are not to blame" well I'd like to know what is to blame then, if pro's are tired after just 6 games something's not right!

You tell a player he is tired and he will start feeling tired,

Hurst should be putting only positive thoughts in the players heads,

Not all the negatives he comes out with.

Quoted from Corkyefes

We could play Macclesfield ten times this season and probably beat them in 8.

Have we actually beaten Macclesfield at home since we have been down here?

They haven't lost to us at BP for 10 years,I believe.

Quoted from grimps

So basically give him more time after having four and a half years ?
What we thinking 6 years ? Ten years ?

But Hurst has shown progression every season.  If he were to finish second this season and get to the playoff final again, then he'd have improved us again.

Whilst I agree in part with both sides of the argument, let's be honest, if we were to finish 2nd at the end of this season, we'd bite your hand off for that.  I know we all wanted to win the league, and to be 12 points behind whilst still in August is stomach-churning, Hurst has proved that, at some point, he gets his teams clicking and getting results.  He needs more time, he deserves more time.  How much time is down for debate, but to be managerless right now would put us in a sticky situation.  What if the new guy actually DOESN'T shown consistency like Hurst has?  Then we'd have to write the whole season off.  There's still hope, with Hurst, that we don't have to do that yet.

I know we're all sick as dogs right now, but let's see how we do on Saturday.  If we iron-out the silly mistakes that are plaguing us, we'll win.  On our day, I'd still fancy us to beat anyone in this cesspit.

I'm usually a glass-half-empty man myself, but I just don't think this is the time to start (too much) finger-pointing.

If I could criticise Hurst about anything though, it'd be the signings; all good ones at first glance, but not enough of them.  Not enough central midfielders, and only 3 strikers.  One injury and it's panic stations that we can't fill the matchday squad.  Signing Robinson shows that he didn't really have any other signings up his sleeve despite the OP windfall, when it's clear to most that Scott Brown has never lived-up to expectations (and now appears conveniently injured at the same time as having personal problems made public), Disley is not 25 any more, and Clifton and Venney are not ready (in his mind).  We never, ever get central midfield right, ever, and that's a let down.

Quoted from grimsby pete

You tell a player he is tired and he will start feeling tired,

Hurst should be putting only positive thoughts in the players heads,

Not all the negatives he comes out with.

Did you hear Paul's interview after the game Pete? He doesn't fill me with confidence at all mate. Alan Buckley summed it up for me in what he had to say.

Quoted from Corkyefes

Didn't bother coming on here yesterday after the game because I knew there would be some very angry fans.

Yesterday was a case of bad finishing and poor final balls.
I generally don't think we played that bad, however it was just them two things that cost us the game, in my opinion.

We could play Macclesfield ten times this season and probably beat them in 8.

The Team

I can see why Hurst made the changes yesterday and I don't blame him for making them.
Disley and Monkhouse were replaced, as the guys are the wrong side of 30 and had played 60 minutes against 11.

Arnold was replaced because the lad worked his socks off aswell on Saturday and probably needed the break.

I was disappointed with Mackreth yesterday.
Numerous of times the lad got himself into great positions or he beat his man, but his final ball was dire.
A couple of better balls would of won us the game in my opinion, and his performance yesterday showed me why he is probably at the level he his.

He reminded me of a poor mans Aaron Lennon, lots of energy and can generally beat a man, but his final delivery is always lacking.

I also have to give abit of stick to Bogle yesterday.
For a guy who is six foot odd, he needs to be winning more headers than he is doing.

I personally think he needs to be abit tougher aswell and to try hold the ball better.

He seemed to be getting abit of a hard time against their centre backs yesterday and struggled with it.
The same when we played Torquay.... The guy just needs to be more aggressive.


The Manager

Would I get rid of him? ..... No, not yet.

I think we have to give the guy at least 15 games before we make any decisions.
If we are mid table after 15, then yes, we probably should be looking at it.

The thing that frustrates me with Hurst is his lack of motivation from the sidelines.
Don't get me wrong, not all managers are shouters, but you even get a little bit of passion with them aswell (someone like Arsene Wenger), but with Hurst, nothing.

I think, like Bogle, he needs to toughen up abit... Start getting at the players when its not working or they are looking out of sorts.

Do we need any more players, potentially yes.


The Season

Despite operation promotion, I never expected us to win the league, however I would of liked us to be challenging for the title.

I always thought the playoffs should be our minimum achievement, however it is disappointing to see that we could possibly already be out of the title race with 7 games gone.

Now people are saying, but there's plenty of time and Mansfield did this, etc, etc.
Yes, I appreciate that, but a 12 point gap is still big at this point of the season.

Put it this way, I would rather be in Forest Greens position than ours at the minute.

We ARE already playing catch up, which is disappointing so early in the seasons.


Lets see where we are at the middle / end of October.
If we are not sat in a play off position by then, then Fenty will have a big decision to make.

Hopefully we are back on track on Saturday.

UTM.

So you like the Manager and lots on her are putting the defeat down to our poor finishing well I was at the game I may be wrong I'm sure there first goal was a mistake by our keeper and the second was a good finish by ther bloke with not such very good defending.
So when do you think it would be time for Hurst to go????

I haven't had the chance to see Town yet this season but do listen to every game on internet. Although I do not like Buckley as a summariser (he always bigs up the opposition, as if he's jealous) the one thing he states every game is that we should be moving the ball quickly and playing at a high pace and this I have to agree with. I do sometimes wonder if PH gets at his players enough before the game to get them going as we always are better in 2nd half than 1st (usually because we are losing).
In pre-season and early games did we not pass and move quickly?  Listening to commentaries we don't appear to be doing this but are too eager to lump the ball forward to Monkhouse or Bogle or take our time building play up from the back, which is all well and good but always gives the opposition time to get their 7,8 or 9 players behind the ball.
Finally I am also in agreement that Mckeown needs to be dropped for a couple of games as his confidence appears to be very low at the moment.  Maybe he has become complacent as he knows he will be picked for every game.

People mention about how long I would give him, well I said in my original post that the middle / end of October is when Fenty would have to make the decision.

We have to remember that Hurst has only had one FULL season in sole charge of the team and we missed out on promotion through the playoffs (by a penalty shoot out).

I'm not saying I'm giving the bloke a full season again whatever happens, I'm saying sacking him after 6 games wouldn't be advisable.


Someone mentioned above that we lost the game because of a mistake and a good goal.
Well yes we did, but what im saying is that if we had better finishing and delivery, it would of been a total different game.

If Amond had put that chance away in the first half, the game goes a total different direction and we probably win the game comfortably.

If Mackreth had not wasted 10 great crossing opportunities, we could of been 2-0 up again in ten minutes.


To the person who said that we've never beat Macclesfield etc etc, I wasn't actually saying that.

I'm saying the squad that we have now, I would expect us to beat Macclesfield 8 out of 10 times and we probably would.


Oh and regards the changes, why not?

Its absolutely stupid to say "after 6 games they shouldn't be tired".

We just battled against our local rivals, with only ten men, for 60 odds minutes, with two 34 year old midfielders.... And you expect them to complete another 90 minutes 1 day later?

Have a think about it.

I do not think the changes where wrong at all. Potentially Arnold should of played, but as I said before, he did work his balderdash off on Saturday.

Would all be forgotten in Hurst won his next 5 games? ... It probably would.

Quoted from Corkyefes

Oh and regards the changes, why not?

Its absolutely stupid to say "after 6 games they shouldn't be tired".

We just battled against our local rivals, with only ten men, for 60 odds minutes, with two 34 year old midfielders.... And you expect them to complete another 90 minutes 1 day later?

Have a think about it.

I do not think the changes where wrong at all. Potentially Arnold should of played, but as I said before, he did work his balderdash off on Saturday.

Would all be forgotten in Hurst won his next 5 games? ... It probably would.

Absolute tosh. I'm not Buckley's biggest fan but he was absolutely right yesterday. Start with your best team (problem as PH doesn't his best team), win the game and THEN take your tired players off. Changing your entire midfield cannot make sense - and by the way there's 2 days between 3pm on a Saturday and 3pm on a Monday.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Absolute tosh. I'm not Buckley's biggest fan but he was absolutely right yesterday. Start with your best team (problem as PH doesn't his best team), win the game and THEN take your tired players off. Changing your entire midfield cannot make sense - and by the way there's 2 days between 3pm on a Saturday and 3pm on a Monday.

Its easy for Buckley to say that when the game is over.
Would he of said the same if we had won the game with making them changes?

Plus we don't know any conversations between the players... how do we know Disley, Monkhouse or Arnold said to Hurst that they were feeling abit tight or something?
A lot of assumptions will be made now the game is over.

I understand them changes after 2 games in 2 days, it would of been different if he had made them changes the week after.

And yes, I understand there is two days between 3pm Saturday and 3pm Monday, but how many full days rest between them? ....Yes, just 1... clever b*llocks.

Quoted from Corkyefes

Its easy for Buckley to say that when the game is over.
Would he of said the same if we had won the game with making them changes?

Buckley said it both before and after the game. To paraphrase 'I always picked the best team I had available to me' - he also went on to say that he wasn't sure that PH knew his best team and also accused him of failing to improve the squad as he always appear to replace like with like and there was no plan to retain players beyond a season. The only player who he said had improved the squad was Omar - which isn't a big surprise as AB was never a big fan of Lennie.

Quoted from cmackenzie4

Did you hear Paul's interview after the game Pete? He doesn't fill me with confidence at all mate. Alan Buckley summed it up for me in what he had to say.

Yes I heard Pauls interview but what did Sir Alan say mate ?

Worth repeating that Buckley said BEFORE the game he was never a tinkerer.
Always went with what he thought was his best available team

Quoted from devs

Worth repeating that Buckley said BEFORE the game he was never a tinkerer.
Always went with what he thought was his best available team

If Hurst plays his strongest team and sticks with it, we will be fine,

BUT

Will he ?

Quoted from grimsby pete

If Hurst plays his strongest team and sticks with it, we will be fine,

BUT

Will he ?

I've summed up Buckley's thoughts earlier in this thread Pete - it's only 5 replies back!

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I've summed up Buckley's thoughts earlier in this thread Pete - it's only 5 replies back!

Thanks mate just read it.

AND

Agree with every word.

Problem is now, Hursts already shattered the good feeling round the club.

We can have our best team play for the next 3-4 games again but it took years to build that good feeling up (I don't think that's an exaduration either) and he's managed to urine it all away 7 games in. That in itself is pretty unforgivable.

I bet the Town Fans on Saturday don't act as though the feelings gone. Heisenberg sums it up for me.