Lenny has to earn his place in Grimsby Town team, boss stresses
By Grimsby Telegraph  |  Posted: August 19, 2014

Lenell John-Lewis in action for Grimsby Town
Lenell John-Lewis in action for Grimsby Town
Comments (8)
GRIMSBY Town boss Paul Hurst insists Lenell John-Lewis is not always guaranteed a place in his side – contrary to what some fans may think.

Hurst is well aware that the big frontman has his critics, but has reiterated that he will stick by him, because of what he brings to the Town team.

He told the Telegraph: "There are no guarantees for Lenny in this side – he's well aware of that – but I do know what he can and does bring to our team.

"I know that some people are detractors, but I don't know how many managers --------THERE ARE SAT UP IN THE STANDS.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,FOR ME  THERE IS NOT ONE SAT IN THE DUG OUT EITHER

Hardly having a go is he?

Or, alternatively, "Hurst defends one of his players from criticism".

The fact that there were some boos in the crowd when Connell went off and Pittman came on the other day was embarrassing.

"Swipe" ??

If that quote isn't gross misconduct I don't know what is.

It's not really a swipe at fans. I do wish Hurst would at least try something else though, we've lacked goals ever since LJL became a regular. Hurst has changed pretty much everything to suit LJL and it's still not working.

We get that you're not a fan if Hurst denni but making up exaggerated and dramatic headlines like that is something I expect from the Sun or the Star. All just so you could have your little dig at Hurst at the end of your post.

I've got no problem with people criticising the Manager but be reasonable and constructive.

"I know that some people are detractors, but I don't know how many managers there are sat up in the stands.

There will soon be a great deal less 'managers sat in the stands' if you keep picking LJL and playing crap football you boring twit.

"Fewer" managers....

I say well said Paul Hurst.....

Quoted from Biccys

"Fewer" managers....

"member"

It's ok for posters on here to call for him to be sacked or call him clueless,

He reads the Fishy and answers a question and he gets slated for it,

He can not win.

Probably a swipe at what I said yesterday

Quoted from 120790

I say well said Paul Hurst.....

How so? Yet again Paul Hurst has come out and spoke about the same player yet again. I've never before seen a manager get so worked up and defensive over a single player before in my life.

I don't think he's digging at the fans like the OP, but if your wanting to try and show everybody you don't have favoritism towards one player then why moan everytime somebody questions his place in the squad? His place is up for debate for a reason.

Quoted from pontoonlew

How so? Yet again Paul Hurst has come out and spoke about the same player yet again. I've never before seen a manager get so worked up and defensive over a single player before in my life.

I don't think he's digging at the fans like the OP, but if your wanting to try and show everybody you don't have favoritism towards one player then why moan everytime somebody questions his place in the squad? His place is up for debate for a reason.

He talks about Lewis because most on here are obsessed with Lewis,

If the moaners on here get putting a thread up calling Pearson,

Hurst would come out and defend him.

Quoted from grimsby pete

He talks about Lewis because most on here are obsessed with Lewis,

If the moaners on here get putting a thread up calling Pearson,

Hurst would come out and defend him.

I've seen plenty of people moaning about other players during Hursts reign and he's not come out to defend one of them. I mention it a lot but Hurst's favoritism of LJL was summed up after his actions when people moaned about him taking a penalty, he was raging that people had groaned. He probably had a point, though he really went overboard with his defense of LJL that night.

2 weeks later he publically calls out Cook for missing the sort of chance LJL has spent his entire career doing. And then people why Cooks head went?

I can see why LJL is at the club, I really can. But Hurst has got to let this go now, show he can be versatile and is willing to drop players who aren't performing, ALL players should be under the impression they are not guaranteed a start. I don't think LJL is, I think Hurst will change the name of the Stadium for good luck before he'll accept LJL maybe shouldn't be starting every week. Eventually if his persistance doesn't pay off (he's be trying to make LJL work for over a year now) then it will cost him his job.

Quoted from grimsby pete

He talks about Lewis because most on here are obsessed with Lewis,

If the moaners on here get putting a thread up calling Pearson,

Hurst would come out and defend him.

Disagree somewhat Pete. We're obsessed about not winning!!

Quoted from grimsby pete

He talks about Lewis because most on here are obsessed with Lewis,

If the moaners on here get putting a thread up calling Pearson,

Hurst would come out and defend him.

Difference being that Pearson is competent at defending, Shop is not so competent at goalscoring

i would be very dissapointed if hurst didnt publicly back any of his players, not especially LJL, i dont see it as taking a swipe at the fans just re-inforcing the fact that despite what we all think it is down to him, and him alone to pick the team, hey if it was that easy we would all have coaching badges and employed proffesionally, but it isnt and while we are all the greates manager sat in the stands or on our computer manager games, the reality is it isnt that easy, but we have to give him credit and our support as manager right now, as well as each and every one of our players.

Quoted from Biccys

"Fewer" managers....

No, it was right first time - "fewer" if a number is mentioned ("fewer than ten items"), but "less" if there is no number.  If you are going to criticize someone's grammar, please check your information before doing so.

I didn't feel a swipe. Must have missed. ;)

Quoted from grimsby pete

It's ok for posters on here to call for him to be sacked or call him clueless,

He reads the Fishy and answers a question and he gets slated for it,

He can not win.

That's the problem.  ;)

Quoted from ginnywings

I didn't feel a swipe. Must have missed. ;)

Tempted to add a punchline but it's like shooting fish in a barrel.......

It was a swipe. It was a reply to letters in the GT and probably the Fishy as well. Fair enough to back his players but is that what PH is doing?

Personally I don't believe him. LJL will be the first name on the team sheet every week because PH rates his work rate and defensive qualities more highly than his goal scoring or lack of it. The injuries to other strikers are disguising the situation so we shall see when they are all fit whether he really means LJL "must earn his place" or not. I think not.

Well Mr Hurst we may not be professional managers in football terms but you will find plenty of us have managed personnel and teams that have been successful against the odds.

You may know more in footballing terms but your management style is uninspiring, the personnel you have at your disposal are not performing, you have no clear leader on the field and quite frankly you should concentrate on getting Lenny a striking coach and getting your teams to perform, especially at BP.

stupid thread, he's defneding a player thatgets a hell of a lot of stick, why dont we all stop this now? we've had non stop threads since saturday of LJL excrement, hurst out, non league for ever etc and its starting to get boring, I said during pre season cant us fans just all start to stick together, I more than agree that performances have been dull and to an extenet poor, but it is at these times surely we should become a proper fanbase and back the team from the off? I expect numerous crosses and disagreements to this post, but is it really such a bad idea? we all want town to do well, We can make the difference by getting behind the boys instead of posting thread after thread of non stories and old opinions. UTM and i welcome your responses  :)

Quoted from Biccys

"Fewer" managers....

So pleased the spelling and grammar police are back on here. Well said Biccys

Quoted from pontoonlew

I've seen plenty of people moaning about other players during Hursts reign and he's not come out to defend one of them. I mention it a lot but Hurst's favoritism of LJL was summed up after his actions when people moaned about him taking a penalty, he was raging that people had groaned. He probably had a point, though he really went overboard with his defense of LJL that night.

2 weeks later he publically calls out Cook for missing the sort of chance LJL has spent his entire career doing. And then people why Cooks head went?

I can see why LJL is at the club, I really can. But Hurst has got to let this go now, show he can be versatile and is willing to drop players who aren't performing, ALL players should be under the impression they are not guaranteed a start. I don't think LJL is, I think Hurst will change the name of the Stadium for good luck before he'll accept LJL maybe shouldn't be starting every week. Eventually if his persistance doesn't pay off (he's be trying to make LJL work for over a year now) then it will cost him his job.

that was just plain embarrassing and shows the level of some of the mouthbreathers that are in the stands.

If cook had half the desire LJL had he would be playing in the league, if you look at the strikers we have had over the conference years how many of them would be an improvement on LJL? i can think of players that were shite but never came near the stick he gets, players like Lee Peacock who was an absolute shirker and spent his time here trying not to get hurt, he probably scored less goals than lenny and people seemed to like him! Other players like Rob Duffy and Anthony Elding (who did get a bit of stick) were brought in to lead the line and failed as they were shite, they didn't have the heart and were too worried about getting hurt, the difference with these players is that they were playing with a strike partner who was banging the goals in, Lenny has not had such a partner yet, Pittman could be the one.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

that was just plain embarrassing and shows the level of some of the mouthbreathers that are in the stands.

If cook had half the desire LJL had he would be playing in the league, if you look at the strikers we have had over the conference years how many of them would be an improvement on LJL? i can think of players that were shite but never came near the stick he gets, players like Lee Peacock who was an absolute shirker and spent his time here trying not to get hurt, he probably scored less goals than lenny and people seemed to like him! Other players like Rob Duffy and Anthony Elding (who did get a bit of stick) were brought in to lead the line and failed as they were shite, they didn't have the heart and were too worried about getting hurt, the difference with these players is that they were playing with a strike partner who was banging the goals in, Lenny has not had such a partner yet, Pittman could be the one.

But most of them brought other players into the game better than LJL does. Peacock may not have been great but he helped Connell to all those goals, Elding (for all he's slated on here) formed perhaps the best strike pairing we've had in years with Hearn. I'm yet to see a single striker who has performed well with Lenny and i'm starting to believe he's not this superb link up man he's made out to be. He's touted as this 'strong in the air, lays it off' type, for one it's an absolute myth in my eyes that he's good in the air. In fact for a big man I'd suggest he's actually relatively poor. We've had a couple of decent strikers alongside him, Hannah scored for fun with Cook but couldn't with LJL? Jennings scored for fun at Macc, came here and couldn't score with LJL? I get that Jennings wasn't 100% right but he looked decidedly poor & lost.

So if he can't score, doesn't have many assists and doesn't ever bring out the best in his strike partner, what are we left with? A nuisance to defenders perhaps, holds the ball up fairly well? Is that worth 46 games of a season? Hurst doesn't help himself with Lenny because of stuff like this, even things like 'His shot hit the inside of the post and I'm not sure how it didn't go in' well Paul, it didn't go in because it didn't hit the inside of the post! Then throwing it in that he's carrying a knock. I just wish he'd stop treating us all like mugs who just because we haven't managed a football team, all of a sudden know intercourse all about the football on the pitch? One of the best in the league he says, always coming out and defending him yet he's adamant he's not a 'favorite' I for one am a little skeptical on that.

I think a lot of people recognise what LJL brings to the team, but right now we need something slightly different. I think Gordon phrased it perfectly when he said:

"Because he's the hero Grimsby deserves, but not the one it needs right now.

The swipe missed because a lot of the 'managers in the stand' are actually managers on a keyboard because they're fed up of not being entertained for their £20 + travel + drinks etc. The irony is that he is causing this not just with his obsession with LJL but also saying one thing in the press and then doing something different like praising Winfarrah one minute then playing someone out of position in front of him the next.

Pete says he can't win - the truth is he can, with a positive attitude, a winning mentality and the proper motivation of what looks, on paper, like a decent squad. The way he'll lose is by alienating the fan base with negative football, poor results and his current miserable attitude. What he needs to remember is that by entertaining the fans with good results, he will put bums on seats and that will not only be good for the club in the short term but will also improve the prospect of a move to a new ground.

Quoted from Saudimariner

No, it was right first time - "fewer" if a number is mentioned ("fewer than ten items"), but "less" if there is no number.  If you are going to criticize someone's grammar, please check your information before doing so.

No, it's "fewer" if the thing in question is countable, which in this case it is. Whether a number happened to be mentioned in the sentence is not relevant here. Use "less" when the thing is not countable, eg water or money.

You're welcome.

Quoted from pontoonlew

But most of them brought other players into the game better than LJL does. Peacock may not have been great but he helped Connell to all those goals, Elding (for all he's slated on here) formed perhaps the best strike pairing we've had in years with Hearn. I'm yet to see a single striker who has performed well with Lenny and i'm starting to believe he's not this superb link up man he's made out to be. He's touted as this 'strong in the air, lays it off' type, for one it's an absolute myth in my eyes that he's good in the air. In fact for a big man I'd suggest he's actually relatively poor. We've had a couple of decent strikers alongside him, Hannah scored for fun with Cook but couldn't with LJL? Jennings scored for fun at Macc, came here and couldn't score with LJL? I get that Jennings wasn't 100% right but he looked decidedly poor & lost.

So if he can't score, doesn't have many assists and doesn't ever bring out the best in his strike partner, what are we left with? A nuisance to defenders perhaps, holds the ball up fairly well? Is that worth 46 games of a season? Hurst doesn't help himself with Lenny because of stuff like this, even things like 'His shot hit the inside of the post and I'm not sure how it didn't go in' well Paul, it didn't go in because it didn't hit the inside of the post! Then throwing it in that he's carrying a knock. I just wish he'd stop treating us all like mugs who just because we haven't managed a football team, all of a sudden know intercourse all about the football on the pitch? One of the best in the league he says, always coming out and defending him yet he's adamant he's not a 'favorite' I for one am a little skeptical on that.

Peacock was useless by the time he got to us, Duffy was even less likely to bring other players into the game.

Hannah was really banging the goals in when Neilson was on fire, we had good width and trickery at that time with him and Marshall proving a real threat.

we have only had two strikers fit this season, LJL had a decent season previous and has earnt his starting place, nobody is claiming he is ever likely to be prolific but he is certainly a valuable member of the team, if pittman stays fit i expect him to start banging them in alongside Lenny.

Quoted from MeanwoodMariner

No, it's "fewer" if the thing in question is countable, which in this case it is. Whether a number happened to be mentioned in the sentence is not relevant. Use "less" when the thing is not countable, eg water or money.

You're welcome.

That is correct.

Have a team point. >:(

Quoted from headingly_mariner

Peacock was useless by the time he got to us, Duffy was even less likely to bring other players into the game.

Hannah was really banging the goals in when Neilson was on fire, we had good width and trickery at that time with him and Marshall proving a real threat.

we have only had two strikers fit this season, LJL had a decent season previous and has earnt his starting place, nobody is claiming he is ever likely to be prolific but he is certainly a valuable member of the team, if pittman stays fit i expect him to start banging them in alongside Lenny.

All of the named strikers bar perhaps Peacock have contributed more in terms of stats than LJL has though. My problem is that Hurst hasn't seemed to want to be replacing LJL with something better, it's LJL & an other. Why can't Pittman & Hannah / Pitman & Connell/  Hannah & Connell ever be considered? Why is it 3 strikers are going for one position when perhaps the most inneffective throughout his whole career gets away without having to fight for his place? Hurst wasn't interested in doing it last season and doesn't seem to be bothered this season either. I'm failing to see this obsession with HAVING to have a big man up top. If your midfield is good enough to play the ball on the deck and have the pace to get in behind the defence then there's no reason you can't have two goalscorers up top. Hurst is too narrow minded and up his 'you lot aren't managers so don't understand' bottom to ever even consider that.

Quoted from pontoonlew

All of the named strikers bar perhaps Peacock have contributed more in terms of stats than LJL has though. My problem is that Hurst hasn't seemed to want to be replacing LJL with something better, it's LJL & an other. Why can't Pittman & Hannah / Pitman & Connell/  Hannah & Connell ever be considered? Why is it 3 strikers are going for one position when perhaps the most inneffective throughout his whole career gets away without having to fight for his place? Hurst wasn't interested in doing it last season and doesn't seem to be bothered this season either. I'm failing to see this obsession with HAVING to have a big man up top. If your midfield is good enough to play the ball on the deck and have the pace to get in behind the defence then there's no reason you can't have two goalscorers up top. Hurst is too narrow minded and up his 'you lot aren't managers so don't understand' bottom to ever even consider that.

Because they haven't had chance yet, pittman wasn't fit enough to start and Hannah is injured so how can he consider them? i would imagine Pittman offers us the option for Lenny not to play, but in the 25 minutes they played together they looked a real handful.

Duffy got 8 in 52 games and covered zero ground in his time here, he was alright if the ball landed on his head in the box, look where he is now!

Elding was a fanny.

Elding actually had a decent enough scoring record, even when you take the ones away which he claimed but didn't touch or which the defenders knocked into their own goals.

You're right though, he was a bit of a fanny.

Another stupid thread anti- hurst or anti-John Lewis

Quoted from Mariner Ronnie

Another stupid thread anti- hurst or anti-John Lewis

Yes indeed. Your photo might provide a clue why there are so many of them.

Peacock marginalised by Scott/Hurst probably for having an opinion that differed to theirs.
Elding decent but idle.
Duffy just shite.
LJL appears to be a good lad who keeps his head down and works very hard. He is though an athlete and not a footballer, something that doesn't seem to bother Hurst. These comments in the paper are pretty pathetic, the sign of a man who knows he's wrong but keeps on repeating the manta anyway. He needs to sort out this running sore before things go mammaries up.

Quoted from Theimperialcoroner

Peacock marginalised by Scott/Hurst probably for having an opinion that differed to theirs.
Elding decent but idle.
Duffy just shite.
LJL appears to be a good lad who keeps his head down and works very hard. He is though an athlete and not a footballer, something that doesn't seem to bother Hurst. These comments in the paper are pretty pathetic, the sign of a man who knows he's wrong but keeps on repeating the manta anyway. He needs to sort out this running sore before things go mammaries up.

Whichever club wants to get out of this league needs a proven goalscorer, problem is finding one. LJL isn't one, Pittman might be if he stays fit, Hannah might be if he stays onside, Connell is past his sell-by. We let a goalscorer go (Southwell) who was proven at Youth level and clearly scores at a level lower as does Bogle who scored twice on Saturday - the thing that PH has to let go is, as you say, LJL is not a footballer. Rarely have I seen a pro with a worse first touch and those that have have been defenders. There is a growing feeling that this obsession with Lennie, however commendable his work-rate, will cost PH his job.

Peacock was utterly past it when he joined - he could barely run following his injuries and only started playing half-decently towards the end of his contract with us.

If he'd been half-decent (along with Tommy Bloody Wright or Adam Fatboy Proudlock), we'd have avoided relegation from the League in the first place.

A worse scoring record for us than the much, much-maligned LJL, yet he still apparently gets a let off as it is obviously the fault of the disliked managerial duo who weren't even in charge when he was doing nothing to keep us in the League? Strange viewpoint.

Yeah, but he had mad hair, a load of tatts and some epic bantz.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Rarely have I seen a pro with a worse first touch and those that have have been defenders. There is a growing feeling that this obsession with Lennie, however commendable his work-rate, will cost PH his job.

LJL doesn't have a terrible first touch. Full stop.

He's no Gianfranco Zola, but don't try to make out he can't control the ball because it's not true. He's a 5th division striker with reasonable ball control for this level but his weakness is that he's not a natural goalscorer. As is often said, if he was, he wouldn't be playing for us.

His first touch is a damn sight better than that of Cook whose departure led to much wailing and gnashing of teeth amongst some on this board, even though he'd been throughly disappointing in 90+% of his performances last season and disappointing in many performances the previous season as well.

The only obsession with LJL I see seems to be amongst certain posters on this board who blame him for every failing of the team (yep, football is a team game you know), whether he has had a decent game or not. His selection for the team also provides some with a useful axe to grind about their current dislike for the manager.

Seriously, we've had 2 fit strikers available this season (though Connell isn't match fit and LJL has apparently been playing with some kind of a stomach problem), and they've unsurprisingly played in all 3 games. The way some are going on about things on this board at the moment, you'd expect them to insist that we should have played Connell up front on his own to improve the team. Which is, of course, idiotic.

So come on, the critics. What would you have done differently this season with the players available?

Quoted from Maringer

So come on, the critics. What would you have done differently this season with the players available?

I wouldn't have renewed the manager's contract for a start.....

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Yes indeed. Your photo might provide a clue why there are so many of them.

What's Hearn done now? Apart from getting injured?

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I wouldn't have renewed the manager's contract for a start.....

Interesting answer. Did you perhaps misread my question? I'm sure I didn't ask anything about the manager.

Quoted from Maringer

LJL doesn't have a terrible first touch. Full

Holy smoke batman,

He's got the touch of a friggin elephant

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I wouldn't have renewed the manager's contract for a start.....

It wasn't.

Quoted from Maringer

LJL doesn't have a terrible first touch. Full stop.

He's no Gianfranco Zola, but don't try to make out he can't control the ball because it's not true. He's a 5th division striker with reasonable ball control for this level but his weakness is that he's not a natural goalscorer. As is often said, if he was, he wouldn't be playing for us.

His first touch is a damn sight better than that of Cook whose departure led to much wailing and gnashing of teeth amongst some on this board, even though he'd been throughly disappointing in 90+% of his performances last season and disappointing in many performances the previous season as well.

The only obsession with LJL I see seems to be amongst certain posters on this board who blame him for every failing of the team (yep, football is a team game you know), whether he has had a decent game or not. His selection for the team also provides some with a useful axe to grind about their current dislike for the manager.

Seriously, we've had 2 fit strikers available this season (though Connell isn't match fit and LJL has apparently been playing with some kind of a stomach problem), and they've unsurprisingly played in all 3 games. The way some are going on about things on this board at the moment, you'd expect them to insist that we should have played Connell up front on his own to improve the team. Which is, of course, idiotic.

So come on, the critics. What would you have done differently this season with the players available?

You are Paul Hurst and I claim my £10.00  (one for the oldies ;))

Quoted from MeanwoodMariner

No, it's "fewer" if the thing in question is countable, which in this case it is. Whether a number happened to be mentioned in the sentence is not relevant here. Use "less" when the thing is not countable, eg water or money.

You're welcome.

I'd love to be a barman where you drink.  (How much change would you get)  ;)

Quoted from Maringer

Interesting answer. Did you perhaps misread my question? I'm sure I didn't ask anything about the manager.

If the manager had gone, LJL might have gone too and Jennings, Rodman and others might have signed.

I clearly thought Peacock offered more to be team than others, but hey ho. What irks me is the attitude from Hurst that he knows better than those who pay his wages. This May or may not be the case, but at least show a bit of grace man you'd be better not saying anything.

Quoted from Maringer

LJL doesn't have a terrible first touch. Full stop.

He's no Gianfranco Zola, but don't try to make out he can't control the ball because it's not true. He's a 5th division striker with reasonable ball control for this level but his weakness is that he's not a natural goalscorer. As is often said, if he was, he wouldn't be playing for us.

His first touch is a damn sight better than that of Cook whose departure led to much wailing and gnashing of teeth amongst some on this board, even though he'd been throughly disappointing in 90+% of his performances last season and disappointing in many performances the previous season as well.

The only obsession with LJL I see seems to be amongst certain posters on this board who blame him for every failing of the team (yep, football is a team game you know), whether he has had a decent game or not. His selection for the team also provides some with a useful axe to grind about their current dislike for the manager.

Seriously, we've had 2 fit strikers available this season (though Connell isn't match fit and LJL has apparently been playing with some kind of a stomach problem), and they've unsurprisingly played in all 3 games. The way some are going on about things on this board at the moment, you'd expect them to insist that we should have played Connell up front on his own to improve the team. Which is, of course, idiotic.

So come on, the critics. What would you have done differently this season with the players available?

Often said, always wrong. It's such a lazy thing to say it's unbeliveable. He is poor in the air, he doesn't get a lot of assists and his balls are often won by barging into people. His touch is actually pretty poor and his distribution isn't much to write home about either. He's a nuisance, pure nuisance who defenders don't like playing against. But that doesn't warrant him a full season and adding goals to his game (just some) wouldn't get him a League 1 club like people keep telling themselves.

He'd be brilliant to bring of the bench, absolutely brilliant and maybe some games we could do with him starting. But he's had so many chances, this isn't victimisation. It's not his fault he starts every week but from the whole squad if you could say one player who didn't deserve a start every week who got one, it would be him.

As has been mentioned, you are speaking as though we signed him 3 games ago and he was the only option. This whole thing stems back over a year now, people are just too short sighted to realise that.

Quoted from pontoonlew

I've seen plenty of people moaning about other players during Hursts reign and he's not come out to defend one of them. I mention it a lot but Hurst's favoritism of LJL was summed up after his actions when people moaned about him taking a penalty, he was raging that people had groaned. He probably had a point, though he really went overboard with his defense of LJL that night.

2 weeks later he publically calls out Cook for missing the sort of chance LJL has spent his entire career doing. And then people why Cooks head went?

I can see why LJL is at the club, I really can. But Hurst has got to let this go now, show he can be versatile and is willing to drop players who aren't performing, ALL players should be under the impression they are not guaranteed a start. I don't think LJL is, I think Hurst will change the name of the Stadium for good luck before he'll accept LJL maybe shouldn't be starting every week. Eventually if his persistance doesn't pay off (he's be trying to make LJL work for over a year now) then it will cost him his job.

I suspect Hurst would probably want to "let this go" but as a manager charged with looking after the welfare of the staff under him he obviously feels the need to defend LJL (and probably himself) against some pretty relentless criticism. It might help if you and your band of brothers-some of whom seem to have based their opinion on what others say on here having not actually witnessed his performances- "let it go" and accepted that in Paul Hurst's eyes (the only ones that really matter) LJL is worth his place in the team. All this continued reference to "favourites" smacks of the school playground. In just about any other environment I can think of it would be construed as bullying. It is certainly scapegoating of the lowest form...

Quoted from MuddyWaters

The swipe missed because a lot of the 'managers in the stand' are actually managers on a keyboard because they're fed up of not being entertained for their £20 + travel + drinks etc. The irony is that he is causing this not just with his obsession with LJL but also saying one thing in the press and then doing something different like praising Winfarrah one minute then playing someone out of position in front of him the next.

Pete says he can't win - the truth is he can, with a positive attitude, a winning mentality and the proper motivation of what looks, on paper, like a decent squad. The way he'll lose is by alienating the fan base with negative football, poor results and his current miserable attitude. What he needs to remember is that by entertaining the fans with good results, he will put bums on seats and that will not only be good for the club in the short term but will also improve the prospect of a move to a new ground.

Can you do something about your obsession with "Alienating the fan base". Your self appointment as spokesperson for the fan base is laughable. Anybody visiting this website would think that gates were dropping like a stone. The Fishy probably has about 300 members who post regularly and not even all of those share your jaundiced views. The vast majority of Town's fan base don't come anywhere near The Fishy...

Quoted from MuddyWaters

If the manager had gone, LJL might have gone too and Jennings, Rodman and others might have signed.

Jesus wept....keep digging!

and had Hurst gone Toto might not have signed and Pearson might have indicated he wanted to leave and Macca might not have committed himself for a further spell. All of these are improbable but certainly as plausible as this thread of argument...

Quoted from barralad

I suspect Hurst would probably want to "let this go" but as a manager charged with looking after the welfare of the staff under him he obviously feels the need to defend LJL (and probably himself) against some pretty relentless criticism. It might help if you and your band of brothers-some of whom seem to have based their opinion on what others say on here having not actually witnessed his performances- "let it go" and accepted that in Paul Hurst's eyes (the only ones that really matter) LJL is worth his place in the team. All this continued reference to "favourites" smacks of the school playground. In just about any other environment I can think of it would be construed as bullying. It is certainly scapegoating of the lowest form...

You are a classic example of a person who is so narrow minded that they're not able to accept there might actually be a problem. 25 goals in 23 goals for a side who should be trying for a title is not good enough but you seem happy to accept that 'Hurst is in charge i'll support all his decisions'. It's a forum, people have opinions and if Hurst isn't doing the business then this is the place people will vent their frustrations. If people are paying for watch a match they are entitled to come on a message board and say what they like.

You are also a classic example of people who think anybody who questions LJL's place in the team is 'relentlessly criticising' or 'Bullying' (I cannot quite describe to you how pathetic you sound saying that). You are making that up in your head, go and actually READ the posts. As often said, Lenny has a place in this squad but I do not feel he has earned a place in the starting 11 and I feel Hurst had him in mind when he failed to get a goalscorer in. I feel better players than LJL have been dropped (and in fact let go from the club) and I can't help thinking that's down to Hurst's tinted view of LJL. Perhaps he does just rate LJL but how long does it need to go on with the team turning in under par performances with a distinct lack of goals before he swallows his pride and TRIED something new?

It's a messageboard Barralad and people pay very very good money to watch the football produced. If they support the side at the game and come on here & feel something isn't right, they are 100% entitled to that opinion.

Quoted from barralad

Can you do something about your obsession with "Alienating the fan base". Your self appointment as spokesperson for the fan base is laughable. Anybody visiting this website would think that gates were dropping like a stone. The Fishy probably has about 300 members who post regularly and not even all of those share your jaundiced views. The vast majority of Town's fan base don't come anywhere near The Fishy...

I don't and never have seen myself as representative of any clique or faction. I just have a belief, shared by several on here, that the club is not yet capable of getting out of this league.

What is noticeable is your obsession with retaliating to almost every post I make on here whilst ignoring others that make similar points. You state 300 members, well over 600 have voted on the PH in or out poll, of which 73% (last time I looked) voted out. So perhaps my views are shared by more than you prefer to admit.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I don't and never have seen myself as representative of any clique or faction. I just have a belief, shared by several on here, that the club is not yet capable of getting out of this league.

What is noticeable is your obsession with retaliating to almost every post I make on here whilst ignoring others that make similar points. You state 300 members, well over 600 have voted on the PH in or out poll, of which 73% (last time I looked) voted out. So perhaps my views are shared by more than you prefer to admit.

I don't have the time or inclination to reply to all of your contributions.  73% of 600-ish still represents a small proportion of Town's "Fan Base"....

Quoted from Maringer

LJL doesn't have a terrible first touch. Full stop.

He's no Gianfranco Zola, but don't try to make out he can't control the ball because it's not true. He's a 5th division striker with reasonable ball control for this level but his weakness is that he's not a natural goalscorer. As is often said, if he was, he wouldn't be playing for us.

It's an illusion that LJL has good touch or control. What he does have is the strength to keep his body between defenders and the ball with his back to goal even though it might bounce off him and a weaker player would be dispossessed. When he has to control the ball going forward or on the run he is poor.

To some extent this explains why the attacks tend to be one dimensional - throwing the ball up to LJL with his back to goal works for him and he sometimes releases another player. Playing the ball through or over the top for him to go after to shoot or cross usually doesn't.

Quoted from barralad

I don't have the time or inclination to reply to all of your contributions.  73% of 600-ish still represents a small proportion of Town's "Fan Base"....

Such a shame!  ;) 73% of 5000 would be quite a lot though!

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I don't and never have seen myself as representative of any clique or faction. I just have a belief, shared by several on here, that the club is not yet capable of getting out of this league.

What is noticeable is your obsession with retaliating to almost every post I make on here whilst ignoring others that make similar points. You state 300 members, well over 600 have voted on the PH in or out poll, of which 73% (last time I looked) voted out. So perhaps my views are shared by more than you prefer to admit.

Not necessarily accurate because if you use chrome in incognito mode you can vote more than once so it could be one user with a day to spare constantly voting for Hurst out,

Quoted from northbankmariner

i would be very dissapointed if hurst didnt publicly back any of his players, not especially LJL, i dont see it as taking a swipe at the fans just re-inforcing the fact that despite what we all think it is down to him, and him alone to pick the team, hey if it was that easy we would all have coaching badges and employed proffesionally, but it isnt and while we are all the greates manager sat in the stands or on our computer manager games, the reality is it isnt that easy, but we have to give him credit and our support as manager right now, as well as each and every one of our players.

Spot on northbank

Quoted from cleethorpes_mariner

Not necessarily accurate because if you use chrome in incognito mode you can vote more than once so it could be one user with a day to spare constantly voting for Hurst out,

I don't think so though , do you?

Three quarters want him gone, that's a big margin and nobody can deny that really.

Quoted from barralad

I don't have the time or inclination to reply to all of your contributions.  73% of 600-ish still represents a small proportion of Town's "Fan Base"....

I'm pretty sure that if 73% of 700ish voted in favour of keeping Hurst that the rose-tinted brigade would be lording that fact over the 'moaners'.

Quoted from Quagmire

I'm pretty sure that if 73% of 700ish voted in favour of keeping Hurst that the rose-tinted brigade would be lording that fact over the 'moaners'.

Exactly, just as there making excuses already  ;)

Quoted from pontoonlew

You are a classic example of a person who is so narrow minded that they're not able to accept there might actually be a problem. 25 goals in 23 goals for a side who should be trying for a title is not good enough but you seem happy to accept that 'Hurst is in charge i'll support all his decisions'. It's a forum, people have opinions and if Hurst isn't doing the business then this is the place people will vent their frustrations. If people are paying for watch a match they are entitled to come on a message board and say what they like.

You are also a classic example of people who think anybody who questions LJL's place in the team is 'relentlessly criticising' or 'Bullying' (I cannot quite describe to you how pathetic you sound saying that). You are making that up in your head, go and actually READ the posts. As often said, Lenny has a place in this squad but I do not feel he has earned a place in the starting 11 and I feel Hurst had him in mind when he failed to get a goalscorer in. I feel better players than LJL have been dropped (and in fact let go from the club) and I can't help thinking that's down to Hurst's tinted view of LJL. Perhaps he does just rate LJL but how long does it need to go on with the team turning in under par performances with a distinct lack of goals before he swallows his pride and TRIED something new?

It's a messageboard Barralad and people pay very very good money to watch the football produced. If they support the side at the game and come on here & feel something isn't right, they are 100% entitled to that opinion.

Your whole focus when you post on here is narrow minded criticism of one player who wears the colours of GTFC (and the manager). Most of the time you only mention other players in connection with how badly done to they have been in relation to LJL.

I certainly don't need a lesson from you in respect of freedom of speech. As it is a "message board" I have always assumed that that gives ME the right to say what I think and challenge opinions that I don't necessarily agree with or does saying what you like only apply to your side of the fence? How you respond to my "challenge" is of course up to you.

I support Hurst as manager of GTFC because I follow the somewhat quaint notion that he is employed as a professional football team manager. I on the other hand am a recently retired civil servant whose direct involvement with football ended on the "Ploggers" 20 or so years ago. I don't believe that I know better than someone who is paid to do the job. I also am not party to what goes on behind the scenes at B.P. I'm not always happy with what goes on on the pitch but generally I can keep a sense of perspective when posting on here or writing an article about a match I've been to. Perhaps you should try it-you might actually like it...

To someone with your narrow focus it may appear that my comments are pathetic but before you go too far down the road of criticism on that point I suggest you re-read your continued references to "favourites" and conspiracy theories. As I said-belongs in the school playground...

Quoted from ackomariner

Exactly, just as there making excuses already  ;)

And the Red Cross monster is busy too :P

Quoted from ackomariner

Exactly, just as there making excuses already  ;)

And giving negative marks  :o

Quoted from MuddyWaters

And the Red Cross monster is busy too :P

Just said that  ;D

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

It's an illusion that LJL has good touch or control. What he does have is the strength to keep his body between defenders and the ball with his back to goal even though it might bounce off him and a weaker player would be dispossessed. When he has to control the ball going forward or on the run he is poor.

To some extent this explains why the attacks tend to be one dimensional - throwing the ball up to LJL with his back to goal works for him and he sometimes releases another player. Playing the ball through or over the top for him to go after to shoot or cross usually doesn't.

He hasn't got a great touch, but then I've never claimed he had. His touch is decent enough for a 5th Division targetman-style player.

The ball rarely just bounces off him (as it tended to do with some fans' favourite Cook who was utterly hopeless with his back to the goal), and you're right that his physical strength is a major part of his play. In a division where the central defenders tend to be very big and with referees willing to let all sorts of pushing and shoving occur, this is an important asset to have in a team, especially as our midfield aren't the most fluid of passers.

Those who claim he has a terrible touch probably aren't considering that half the time the ball is played to him, he is being challenged by 2 players. Or perhaps they just aren't watching what is going on?

I have no illusions about LJL's abilities as a player. He's no world-beater, he's not a great goalscorer and he isn't going to fire us to victory week-in, week-out. However, he will be an important part of our squad and team this season as perhaps only Pittman is an alternative as the vital physical presence up front that our style of play requires. The chances of Pittman staying fit all season are slim and therefore. If we sign another striker with a bit of size and strength such as Bogle, then LJL will perhaps be dropped to the bench at times. Until that point, it is sensible for him to be played.

The incredible thing for me is that all this anti-LJL hysteria whipped up by some posters over the past week just defies belief. We've quite literally not had any other strikers available to play due to injuries this season yet there is a witch hunt against one of our two fit strikers going on across this board? This is so utterly nonsensical, I just can't understand it.

On the other hand, we've had non-performances from Connell which have gone unmentioned and barely a whimper about Brown's unbelievable late miss against Dover. I can only imagine what sort of a meltdown the anti-LJL crowd would have gone into had he missed similarly.

Look, we get it. You've picked your scapegoat for the season and LJL is it. Please don't feel the urge to remind us of it in every single thread, especially when there are no other options for a game due to injuries and suspensions or when he's not played badly in any case.

Quoted from Quagmire

I'm pretty sure that if 73% of 700ish voted in favour of keeping Hurst that the rose-tinted brigade would be lording that fact over the 'moaners'.

I cannot speak for others but I certainly wouldn't because I don't believe in the strength of such polls other than as a "which way is the wind blowing" exercise...

I'm fairly convinced that if Town got a result at Gateshead and beat Alfreton and you ran the same poll next week the reaction would be significantly different...

As I've said to PontoonLew I don't belong to any faction and actually don't beieve such factions exist other than in the fevered imagination of some of the posters on here...

Quoted from Maringer

He hasn't got a great touch, but then I've never claimed he had. His touch is decent enough for a 5th Division targetman-style player.

The ball rarely just bounces off him (as it tended to do with some fans' favourite Cook who was utterly hopeless with his back to the goal), and you're right that his physical strength is a major part of his play. In a division where the central defenders tend to be very big and with referees willing to let all sorts of pushing and shoving occur, this is an important asset to have in a team, especially as our midfield aren't the most fluid of passers.

Those who claim he has a terrible touch probably aren't considering that half the time the ball is played to him, he is being challenged by 2 players. Or perhaps they just aren't watching what is going on?

I have no illusions about LJL's abilities as a player. He's no world-beater, he's not a great goalscorer and he isn't going to fire us to victory week-in, week-out. However, he will be an important part of our squad and team this season as perhaps only Pittman is an alternative as the vital physical presence up front that our style of play requires. The chances of Pittman staying fit all season are slim and therefore. If we sign another striker with a bit of size and strength such as Bogle, then LJL will perhaps be dropped to the bench at times. Until that point, it is sensible for him to be played.

The incredible thing for me is that all this anti-LJL hysteria whipped up by some posters over the past week just defies belief. We've quite literally not had any other strikers available to play due to injuries this season yet there is a witch hunt against one of our two fit strikers going on across this board? This is so utterly nonsensical, I just can't understand it.

On the other hand, we've had non-performances from Connell which have gone unmentioned and barely a whimper about Brown's unbelievable late miss against Dover. I can only imagine what sort of a meltdown the anti-LJL crowd would have gone into had he missed similarly.

Look, we get it. You've picked your scapegoat for the season and LJL is it. Please don't feel the urge to remind us of it in every single thread, especially when there are no other options for a game due to injuries and suspensions or when he's not played badly in any case.

You ph?  ;D

Quoted from MuddyWaters

And the Red Cross monster is busy too :P

Haven't you switched it off yet?

I feel loads better not being able to see it..... 8) (please note:- sun glasses not rose tinted variety...)

Quoted from barralad

Haven't you switched it off yet?

I feel loads better not being able to see it..... 8) (please note:- sun glasses not rose tinted variety...)

;D made me laugh barra...

For reference, I've only marked a post with a cross once that I can remember and that was as a joke and was indicated as such. I've left the odd tick perhaps a handful of times. No conspiracy here as I don't know anybody on this board.

I've never met Hurst, never met Fenty and don't know any of the players. Everything I post is based on what I see at the matches, mostly at BP, as I'm rarely able to make an away game these days.

I try to avoid name calling, however much I think some posters might deserve it, as it is rarely helpful. Others should try the same.

Quoted from Maringer

He hasn't got a great touch, but then I've never claimed he had. His touch is decent enough for a 5th Division targetman-style player.

The ball rarely just bounces off him (as it tended to do with some fans' favourite Cook who was utterly hopeless with his back to the goal), and you're right that his physical strength is a major part of his play. In a division where the central defenders tend to be very big and with referees willing to let all sorts of pushing and shoving occur, this is an important asset to have in a team, especially as our midfield aren't the most fluid of passers.

Those who claim he has a terrible touch probably aren't considering that half the time the ball is played to him, he is being challenged by 2 players. Or perhaps they just aren't watching what is going on?

I have no illusions about LJL's abilities as a player. He's no world-beater, he's not a great goalscorer and he isn't going to fire us to victory week-in, week-out. However, he will be an important part of our squad and team this season as perhaps only Pittman is an alternative as the vital physical presence up front that our style of play requires. The chances of Pittman staying fit all season are slim and therefore. If we sign another striker with a bit of size and strength such as Bogle, then LJL will perhaps be dropped to the bench at times. Until that point, it is sensible for him to be played.

The incredible thing for me is that all this anti-LJL hysteria whipped up by some posters over the past week just defies belief. We've quite literally not had any other strikers available to play due to injuries this season yet there is a witch hunt against one of our two fit strikers going on across this board? This is so utterly nonsensical, I just can't understand it.

On the other hand, we've had non-performances from Connell which have gone unmentioned and barely a whimper about Brown's unbelievable late miss against Dover. I can only imagine what sort of a meltdown the anti-LJL crowd would have gone into had he missed similarly.

Look, we get it. You've picked your scapegoat for the season and LJL is it. Please don't feel the urge to remind us of it in every single thread, especially when there are no other options for a game due to injuries and suspensions or when he's not played badly in any case.

If you ever fancy giving lessons in how to post eminently sensible contributions then please consider me as your first pupil...

If I had a hat on I'd take it off to you...

Quoted from ackomariner

;D made me laugh barra...

Sometimes we forget that is what it is...a laugh (I'm as bad as anyone for that!) There are far more important things that really, really matter going on....

DISCLAIMER:- Except that PontoonLew who really should be boiled in extra virgin olive oil ;)

Quoted from Maringer

He hasn't got a great touch, but then I've never claimed he had. His touch is decent enough for a 5th Division targetman-style player.

The ball rarely just bounces off him (as it tended to do with some fans' favourite Cook who was utterly hopeless with his back to the goal), and you're right that his physical strength is a major part of his play. In a division where the central defenders tend to be very big and with referees willing to let all sorts of pushing and shoving occur, this is an important asset to have in a team, especially as our midfield aren't the most fluid of passers.

Those who claim he has a terrible touch probably aren't considering that half the time the ball is played to him, he is being challenged by 2 players. Or perhaps they just aren't watching what is going on?

I have no illusions about LJL's abilities as a player. He's no world-beater, he's not a great goalscorer and he isn't going to fire us to victory week-in, week-out. However, he will be an important part of our squad and team this season as perhaps only Pittman is an alternative as the vital physical presence up front that our style of play requires. The chances of Pittman staying fit all season are slim and therefore. If we sign another striker with a bit of size and strength such as Bogle, then LJL will perhaps be dropped to the bench at times. Until that point, it is sensible for him to be played.

The incredible thing for me is that all this anti-LJL hysteria whipped up by some posters over the past week just defies belief. We've quite literally not had any other strikers available to play due to injuries this season yet there is a witch hunt against one of our two fit strikers going on across this board? This is so utterly nonsensical, I just can't understand it.

On the other hand, we've had non-performances from Connell which have gone unmentioned and barely a whimper about Brown's unbelievable late miss against Dover. I can only imagine what sort of a meltdown the anti-LJL crowd would have gone into had he missed similarly.

Look, we get it. You've picked your scapegoat for the season and LJL is it. Please don't feel the urge to remind us of it in every single thread, especially when there are no other options for a game due to injuries and suspensions or when he's not played badly in any case.

Your not going to make many friends on here posting sensible views like this  :)

Surely whether his touch is good or not, isn't even the point ?

Based on outfield contribution alone on Sat he deserves his place in side.
Whether it will continue or not we'll see but the Headline "Lenny has to earn his place in Grimsby Town team, boss stresses" seems to suggest it's not 1 way traffic or he's guaranteed anything.

Now if we had 2 Lenny's (cue jokes !...), I'd be slightly concerned about goals long term.
But we're trying to find someone who can feed off Lenny. (who I guess will also get a fair share too !)
Simple as that for me.

Quoted from grimsby pete

It's ok for posters on here to call for him to be sacked or call him clueless,

He reads the Fishy and answers a question and he gets slated for it,

He can not win.

It's ok for posters to call for him to be sacked because this a forum and this may be there opinion. That's what they are for to air your opinions.
'He can not win' because he's a sh1t, boring and negative manager. This is just my opinion though.

Quoted from barralad

Your whole focus when you post on here is narrow minded criticism of one player who wears the colours of GTFC (and the manager). Most of the time you only mention other players in connection with how badly done to they have been in relation to LJL.

I certainly don't need a lesson from you in respect of freedom of speech. As it is a "message board" I have always assumed that that gives ME the right to say what I think and challenge opinions that I don't necessarily agree with or does saying what you like only apply to your side of the fence? How you respond to my "challenge" is of course up to you.

I support Hurst as manager of GTFC because I follow the somewhat quaint notion that he is employed as a professional football team manager. I on the other hand am a recently retired civil servant whose direct involvement with football ended on the "Ploggers" 20 or so years ago. I don't believe that I know better than someone who is paid to do the job. I also am not party to what goes on behind the scenes at B.P. I'm not always happy with what goes on on the pitch but generally I can keep a sense of perspective when posting on here or writing an article about a match I've been to. Perhaps you should try it-you might actually like it...

To someone with your narrow focus it may appear that my comments are pathetic but before you go too far down the road of criticism on that point I suggest you re-read your continued references to "favourites" and conspiracy theories. As I said-belongs in the school playground...

My 'narrow minded criticism' as you call it is a relatively new thing. I absolutely love the club and have very rarely criticized the players or management as much as I have in the past year.

That's down to 2 things that have happened at the same time, I moved 200 miles away and the football got insanely boring. So when you travel 400 miles round for a home game and you see the shite served up it tends to grind on your gears. My view is we have a manager who would prefer to focus his whole game on 'not losing' and just scraping by. Despite the fact that season in and season out now we are in no way prepared for taking on teams in the play-offs. He has a shocking rotation policy which explains the annual post Xmas decline. He hypocritically stands by players through thick or thin whilst openly criticising others. He's happy to say 'well we got to the play-offs' but who cares when the football is so shite for 46 games and then we're miles off the play-off sides when we get there? Why is that any different to playing with some balls and finishing 10th? We still end up with the same fixture list the season after.

His man management towards certain players is questionable at best, not only the recent Winfarrah debacle but many others in the past. He has a total inability to adapt to ANY tactics, he has one way of playing, one dimensional negative crap in the hope we nick a goal. His terribly negative approach cost us the game in the first leg of the Gateshead play-off games and for that alone he should've lost his job, not only that but we all saw Gatesheads weakenesses in the first leg and all thought he'd adapt to that for the second, did he? Did he balderdash. Let's face it, the sending off was the only thing that forced us forward and look at how good we looked then.

It's one thing after another with the guy and I'm sick of it. I've been saying all of this for a year now and been slated for it, people are now slowly starting to see the obvious flaws with our manager. So should I just accept that I support the club and get on with the fact our manager has drained away my love for going to watch us? I've never felt so uninterested in going to games in my whole life and it's all down to one man & his tactics. I want to go to Blundell Park and see Grimsby scaring the excrement out of opposition, going at them and tearing them apart. There's no willingness anymore, the players are there so where's the problem? It's the man dishing out the instructions.

Perhaps Hurst should see the reason so many people are criticising his 'successful' team is the fact he's sucked the joy out of it in the process.

If Paul Hurst leads us to promotion, I promise the Fishy I will get his name tattooed on my bottom. Quote me on that.

Quoted from pontoonlew

My 'narrow minded criticism' as you call it is a relatively new thing. I absolutely love the club and have very rarely criticized the players or management as much as I have in the past year.

That's down to 2 things that have happened at the same time, I moved 200 miles away and the football got insanely boring. So when you travel 400 miles round for a home game and you see the shite served up it tends to grind on your gears. My view is we have a manager who would prefer to focus his whole game on 'not losing' and just scraping by. Despite the fact that season in and season out now we are in no way prepared for taking on teams in the play-offs. He has a shocking rotation policy which explains the annual post Xmas decline. He hypocritically stands by players through thick or thin whilst openly criticising others. He's happy to say 'well we got to the play-offs' but who cares when the football is so shite for 46 games and then we're miles off the play-off sides when we get there? Why is that any different to playing with some balls and finishing 10th? We still end up with the same fixture list the season after.

His man management towards certain players is questionable at best, not only the recent Winfarrah debacle but many others in the past. He has a total inability to adapt to ANY tactics, he has one way of playing, one dimensional negative crap in the hope we nick a goal. His terribly negative approach cost us the game in the first leg of the Gateshead play-off games and for that alone he should've lost his job, not only that but we all saw Gatesheads weakenesses in the first leg and all thought he'd adapt to that for the second, did he? Did he balderdash. Let's face it, the sending off was the only thing that forced us forward and look at how good we looked then.

It's one thing after another with the guy and I'm sick of it. I've been saying all of this for a year now and been slated for it, people are now slowly starting to see the obvious flaws with our manager. So should I just accept that I support the club and get on with the fact our manager has drained away my love for going to watch us? I've never felt so uninterested in going to games in my whole life and it's all down to one man & his tactics. I want to go to Blundell Park and see Grimsby scaring the excrement out of opposition, going at them and tearing them apart. There's no willingness anymore, the players are there so where's the problem? It's the man dishing out the instructions.

Perhaps Hurst should see the reason so many people are criticising his 'successful' team is the fact he's sucked the joy out of it in the process.

If Paul Hurst leads us to promotion, I promise the Fishy I will get his name tattooed on my bottom. Quote me on that.

Fair play to you for your travelling. Not sure if I could do it. I'm also a tad sorry that you have such a dystopian view of things. It just doesn't seem that bad to me. I honestly think that if I felt like you I'd find another hobby. That's not meant to be a clever reply but if the joy has gone out of it for you then in the interests of your sanity (and your wallet!!) you almost owe it to yourself!

Aye I've certainly found myself doing that, I think i've missed 4 games out of pure choice (being able to get there, having the money etc) and just not bothered. All 4 of those have been in the past 2 seasons, it speaks volumes, especially when you don't feel entertained even when we win.

That said the squad is good, i'm sure of that and I'm sure somebody could take us up with an extra striker.

Yeah I was gonna say the same actually !
Very well done for the travelling and support but agree, I'd put your own mental wellbeing first if it's that's frustrating !

Now onto my gripe...

Quoted from pontoonlew

He has a shocking rotation policy which explains the annual post Xmas decline.

Sorry that's just rubbish !

Assuming this "rotation" involves NOT playing the "best players" every single game, you might say he's done bloody well to reach the playoffs in consecutive seasons.

You then go on to say in the next sentence...

Quoted from pontoonlew

He hypocritically stands by players through thick or thin

i.e. supposedly the complete opposite ?

In any case aren't you suggesting LJL is removed from the team ?
Sounds like squad rotation to me !

Until you can explain why it's "shocking", I'll assume you don't have an in depth knowledge of the pros and cons of "rotation" (to be fair very few do !) and you're adding 2 + 2 = 5.

I welcome all opinions (and even agree with some of your points) but wish fans would stop making what look like "buzz statements" without offering any evidence to back up their claims.  :-/

On the subject all these:
"going downhill since Xmas",
"it's been the same for the last 2 years"  

statements bear no true reflection to reality - i.e. the reality of reaching the playoffs !

Now if you think reaching the playoffs isn't good enough or the football is "shite" (agree it's not wonderful) that's fine.
But please don't try to bend the reality curve down making out it's gone downhill when in truth, it's been in a dead straight line.

Quoted from pontoonlew

He's happy to say 'well we got to the play-offs' but who cares when the football is so shite for 46 games and then we're miles off the play-off sides when we get there?

So if offered you a playoff place this season you wouldn't take it ?

Quoted from pontoonlew

If Paul Hurst leads us to promotion, I promise the Fishy I will get his name tattooed on my bottom. Quote me on that.

??)

You do know Paul Hursts full name is Paul Hubert Blaine Wolfeschlegelsteinhausenbergerdorff Hurst   ;)

Quoted from 120797

Yeah I was gonna say the same actually !
Very well done for the travelling and support but agree, I'd put your own mental wellbeing first if it's that's frustrating !

Now onto my gripe...

Sorry that's just rubbish !

Assuming this "rotation" involves NOT playing the "best players" every single game, you might say he's done bloody well to reach the playoffs in consecutive seasons.

You then go on to say in the next sentence...

i.e. supposedly the complete opposite ?

In any case aren't you suggesting LJL is removed from the team ?
Sounds like squad rotation to me !

Until you can explain why it's "shocking", I'll assume you don't have an in depth knowledge of the pros and cons of "rotation" (to be fair very few do !) and you're adding 2 + 2 = 5.

I welcome all opinions (and even agree with some of your points) but wish fans would stop making what look like "buzz statements" without offering any evidence to back up their claims.  :-/

On the subject all these:
"going downhill since Xmas",
"it's been the same for the last 2 years"  

statements bear no true reflection to reality - i.e. the reality of reaching the playoffs !

Now if you think reaching the playoffs isn't good enough or the football is "shite" (agree it's not wonderful) that's fine.
But please don't try to bend the reality curve down making out it's gone downhill when in truth, it's been in a dead straight line.

So if offered you a playoff place this season you wouldn't take it ?

On a slightly irrelevant note, welcome back 80s. I did wonder what had happened to you after the old fishy was closed down and was sorry to see that you didn't return.

Glad that you're back as I enjoyed reading your posts.

Utm

80s - Look at our recent record after Xmas and look at the selection consistency and tell me there isn't a distinct correlation.

Quoted from pontoonlew

80s - Look at our recent record after Xmas and look at the selection consistency and tell me there isn't a distinct correlation.

You're confusing correlation with causation.

I'm sure there were MANY MANY factors that changed in that time period.

For example, it could have been the height of the grass on the BP.

I could take a chart showing it to be longer after Xmas and say
"Ooooh look it must be the grass that's the problem !"

Wouldn't necessarily make it the real reason though !

If you want a real reason as food for thought, perhaps the crippling fixture backlog we had (which often makes rotation more necessary !) is a good place to start.

Quoted from davmariner

On a slightly irrelevant note, welcome back 80s. I did wonder what had happened to you after the old fishy was closed down and was sorry to see that you didn't return.

Glad that you're back as I enjoyed reading your posts.

Utm

Cheers dav, have enjoyed reading yours over the last couple of seasons.
Good to see you too !

Quoted from Maringer

He hasn't got a great touch, but then I've never claimed he had. His touch is decent enough for a 5th Division targetman-style player.

The ball rarely just bounces off him (as it tended to do with some fans' favourite Cook who was utterly hopeless with his back to the goal), and you're right that his physical strength is a major part of his play. In a division where the central defenders tend to be very big and with referees willing to let all sorts of pushing and shoving occur, this is an important asset to have in a team, especially as our midfield aren't the most fluid of passers.

Those who claim he has a terrible touch probably aren't considering that half the time the ball is played to him, he is being challenged by 2 players. Or perhaps they just aren't watching what is going on?

I have no illusions about LJL's abilities as a player. He's no world-beater, he's not a great goalscorer and he isn't going to fire us to victory week-in, week-out. However, he will be an important part of our squad and team this season as perhaps only Pittman is an alternative as the vital physical presence up front that our style of play requires. The chances of Pittman staying fit all season are slim and therefore. If we sign another striker with a bit of size and strength such as Bogle, then LJL will perhaps be dropped to the bench at times. Until that point, it is sensible for him to be played.

The incredible thing for me is that all this anti-LJL hysteria whipped up by some posters over the past week just defies belief. We've quite literally not had any other strikers available to play due to injuries this season yet there is a witch hunt against one of our two fit strikers going on across this board? This is so utterly nonsensical, I just can't understand it.

On the other hand, we've had non-performances from Connell which have gone unmentioned and barely a whimper about Brown's unbelievable late miss against Dover. I can only imagine what sort of a meltdown the anti-LJL crowd would have gone into had he missed similarly.

Look, we get it. You've picked your scapegoat for the season and LJL is it. Please don't feel the urge to remind us of it in every single thread, especially when there are no other options for a game due to injuries and suspensions or when he's not played badly in any case.

Personally I don't have a scapegoat. The problem is that the defenders of LJL think that every comment about him is a personal slight on the lad and, if you think that, then a leap to his defence is understandable. My points about LJL have always been as part of the team set up - the fact that he is chosen now is obviously because there is no-one else. That doesn't suddenly make him a better or a worse player. The comment I made on his touch is simply that - a comment I believe is quite verifiable by looking at the highlights of games, again in the context of how the side plays. Because of all this and the injuries to other strikers poor old LJL becomes the focus of comment, it is inevitable.

The team falls between two stools. I think the manager was and is fully aware of the fans' opinions on the playing style and lack of goals last season. He said more than once before the season began that he wanted a faster, passing game and had signed players to do that. At times so far the side has indeed passed the ball quite well but when it does it lacks the cutting edge striker who can join in creatively and make that count. Possibly Pittman might be the one but LJL isn't, in my opinion anyway though maybe not other people's. When the passing game doesn't work the players revert to lumping it forward to him.

PH did not sign a name striker to fit into a passing style even though he had time and money. Instead, with Pittman injured, he kept LJL in the team but the lad simply does not fit unless the ball is lumped up to him with his back to goal and somebody picks up the rebound. It's not his fault, he's a square peg in a passing side. Plus he doesn't score. He did score in pre-season and maybe this lulled PH into thinking he might carry on doing that. Who knows?

In any event, PH seems to have a split personality on this passing game business because he hasn't signed a loan striker and is persevering with someone who can't play it. Maybe it's his safety first nature, I don't know, but if PH really does want LJL in his side when everyone is fit then he will just have to go back full time to a long ball game. Cue more criticism. Vicious circle isn't it?

Believe it or not, I hope I am wrong. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than seeing LJL score bucketsful of goals and Town be able to stop relying on a stonewall defence to get the points.

Quoted from ackomariner

I don't think so though , do you?

Three quarters want him gone, that's a big margin and nobody can deny that really.

Not so sure, over 200 yes votes in about 2 hours tonight makes me think there is something a miss somewhere.
that with only 20 odd users logged in you have to admit it does look a bit suspect

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Personally I don't have a scapegoat. The problem is that the defenders of LJL think that every comment about him is a personal slight on the lad and, if you think that, then a leap to his defence is understandable. My points about LJL have always been as part of the team set up - the fact that he is chosen now is obviously because there is no-one else. That doesn't suddenly make him a better or a worse player. The comment I made on his touch is simply that - a comment I believe is quite verifiable by looking at the highlights of games, again in the context of how the side plays. Because of all this and the injuries to other strikers poor old LJL becomes the focus of comment, it is inevitable.

The team falls between two stools. I think the manager was and is fully aware of the fans' opinions on the playing style and lack of goals last season. He said more than once before the season began that he wanted a faster, passing game and had signed players to do that. At times so far the side has indeed passed the ball quite well but when it does it lacks the cutting edge striker who can join in creatively and make that count. Possibly Pittman might be the one but LJL isn't, in my opinion anyway though maybe not other people's. When the passing game doesn't work the players revert to lumping it forward to him.

PH did not sign a name striker to fit into a passing style even though he had time and money. Instead, with Pittman injured, he kept LJL in the team but the lad simply does not fit unless the ball is lumped up to him with his back to goal and somebody picks up the rebound. It's not his fault, he's a square peg in a passing side. Plus he doesn't score. He did score in pre-season and maybe this lulled PH into thinking he might carry on doing that. Who knows?

In any event, PH seems to have a split personality on this passing game business because he hasn't signed a loan striker and is persevering with someone who can't play it. Maybe it's his safety first nature, I don't know, but if PH really does want LJL in his side when everyone is fit then he will just have to go back full time to a long ball game. Cue more criticism. Vicious circle isn't it?

Believe it or not, I hope I am wrong. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than seeing LJL score bucketsful of goals and Town be able to stop relying on a stonewall defence to get the points.

Great post. I agree fully.

Quoted from chaos33

Great post. I agree fully.

Whs

The problem is that it is easy to say Hurst is obviously going to continue to play LJL because he hasn't signed a loan striker. This is making a broad assumption that there are lots of strikers available who are capable of improving our team and willing to come here on loan at this very moment. It's a week into the season, most players who aren't part of a club's plans have already been transfer-listed or loaned out (such as Arnold) so just where are we going to find all these excellent strikers we can choose from to improve the team?

Hurst has noted before that he still wants to sign another attacker or two - the difficulty appears to be finding one good enough to improve the team and willing to join us. It will be interesting to see if the continue rumours about Bogle will actually come to anything or not. If not, I wonder which other irons may be in the fire?

When does the transfer window end and the loan window open? Is it the end of the month?

The other clear assumption by most is that with LJL in the team, we just won't score any goals or win enough games. I said at the start of the season, he doesn't need to be top scorer - if he can get somewhere around 10 goals again that is fine, providing the players around him score the goals to win the games. Hannah is clearly capable of scoring goals when on form, given the chances. Pittman looks like he ought to be capable. Arnold has a reasonable enough record on the wing and can apparently play through the middle. One or two other attackers probably required as well with other players chipping in with the midfielders and hopefully the defenders also scoring some.

If you say this is not enough, let me point out that last season, Cambridge (and Gateshead) scored 7 more goals than us over the course of the 46 games. Can our defence be as good as that of Cambridge this season? Perhaps. In which case we could quite easily win games narrowly (as did Cambridge last season), to push our way up towards the top of the league.

So people want a passing game ?

Being realistic can't see any "passing game" taking shape unless the most creative midfield players return to full fitness and lots of work on the training ground is done.

Again, unrealistic unfair expectations !

That said Hurst says he WANTS to play a passing style, but guess he hasn't said he WILL.
Me ? I ideally WANT us to play like Brazil, sometimes you've got to be realistic...

However FWIW I think LJL is quite a good passer of the ball !

End of the day why can't fans just support the manager whatever style or players he chooses ?

Quoted from Civvy at last

You are Paul Hurst and I claim my £10.00  (one for the oldies ;))

£10?! You can't be as old as you claim.

Wasn't the original one 10 bob? With inflation, Tommy Target was a fiver.

Quoted from Hagrid

stupid thread, he's defneding a player thatgets a hell of a lot of stick, why dont we all stop this now? we've had non stop threads since saturday of LJL excrement, hurst out, non league for ever etc and its starting to get boring, I said during pre season cant us fans just all start to stick together, I more than agree that performances have been dull and to an extenet poor, but it is at these times surely we should become a proper fanbase and back the team from the off? I expect numerous crosses and disagreements to this post, but is it really such a bad idea? we all want town to do well, We can make the difference by getting behind the boys instead of posting thread after thread of non stories and old opinions. UTM and i welcome your responses  :)

So firstly, what you're saying is you can't criticise anything, any time.

And secondly, you seem to be equating "fans sticking together" with "fans voicing no criticism/no one must disagree with me".

Nah! Not me mate. If I wanted blind obedience I'd join a flipping cult.

Quoted from barralad

I don't have the time or inclination to reply to all of your contributions.  73% of 600-ish still represents a small proportion of Town's "Fan Base"....

Keep playing football like we are under this member and it won't do.  

Quoted from barralad

I suspect Hurst would probably want to "let this go" but as a manager charged with looking after the welfare of the staff under him he obviously feels the need to defend LJL (and probably himself) against some pretty relentless criticism. It might help if you and your band of brothers-some of whom seem to have based their opinion on what others say on here having not actually witnessed his performances- "let it go" and accepted that in Paul Hurst's eyes (the only ones that really matter) LJL is worth his place in the team. All this continued reference to "favourites" smacks of the school playground. In just about any other environment I can think of it would be construed as bullying. It is certainly scapegoating of the lowest form...

The fact is, it's not in the work place, or somewhere that the alleged victim couldn't avoid. People have moaned about players and managers for decades. Maybe longer. What makes that bullying?

You might equally say that in any other environment shouting out vocal encouragement for people to excel at work, or dancing and shouting when they do, would be construed as strange behaviour.

Nobody is being threatened with violence. Nobody is being threatened with removal of rights or loss of employment or business or loss of privileges. Unless you consider comments to the effect that "I'm not watching Town until X happens" as a threat.....

Quoted from KingstonMariner

So firstly, what you're saying is you can't criticise anything, any time.

And secondly, you seem to be equating "fans sticking together" with "fans voicing no criticism/no one must disagree with me".

Nah! Not me mate. If I wanted blind obedience I'd join a flipping cult.

Dear me Kingston...  

I can just imagine you as a player under Hurst....

Hursty: "Kinggy, I want you to play right mid at Heed !"
Kingston: "Why, because YOU say so ?"
Hursty: "Not really, just thought it might be best for the club if you did"
Kingston: "So what you're saying is you can't criticise anything, any time ?"
Hursty: "No but we've got us away game coming up there, though you could do a job for us ?"
Kingston: "You seem to be equating "players sticking together in a team" with "voicing no criticism/no one must disagree with me".
Hurst: "No, just thought you might see the advantage and point to it. How about sub, it might 'elp us all ?"
Kingston: Nah! Not me mate. If I wanted blind obedience I'd join a flipping cult.
Hurst: ??)

Quoted from KingstonMariner

So firstly, what you're saying is you can't criticise anything, any time.

And secondly, you seem to be equating "fans sticking together" with "fans voicing no criticism/no one must disagree with me".

Nah! Not me mate. If I wanted blind obedience I'd join a flipping cult.

No. What im saying is what i put? I havent mentioned anything that you have said

Quoted from Maringer

The problem is that it is easy to say Hurst is obviously going to continue to play LJL because he hasn't signed a loan striker.

No, the problem is that people think he will continue to play LJL regardless of whether he signs another striker. Sadly for him, LJL has become a sort of symbol of how PH wants his side to play, hence the disquiet amongst the fans when he is selected because they know they are in for another lump it up the middle, struggle to score, game.

It isn't fair on LJL that this should happen but it is inevitable after last season.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

The fact is, it's not in the work place, or somewhere that the alleged victim couldn't avoid. People have moaned about players and managers for decades. Maybe longer. What makes that bullying?

You might equally say that in any other environment shouting out vocal encouragement for people to excel at work, or dancing and shouting when they do, would be construed as strange behaviour.

Nobody is being threatened with violence. Nobody is being threatened with removal of rights or loss of employment or business or loss of privileges. Unless you consider comments to the effect that "I'm not watching Town until X happens" as a threat.....

If you think that making someone a scapegoat repeatedly for the failure of a team of eleven men to win a football match isn't a form of bullying then so be it. Violence takes all sorts of forms. I suggest that you listen to some of the verbal abuse levelled at LJL from the stands.
I don't know what your working environment is like but I always found that publicly praising a member of my staff was well received.
The lad has been made a scapegoat by people who still cannot believe that after four seasons GTFC are not back in the Football League and feel the need to channel that frustration onto an individual.
It may always have happened. It doesn't make it right.....

Quoted from barralad

If you think that making someone a scapegoat repeatedly for the failure of a team of eleven men to win a football match isn't a form of bullying then so be it. Violence takes all sorts of forms. I suggest that you listen to some of the verbal abuse levelled at LJL from the stands.
I don't know what your working environment is like but I always found that publicly praising a member of my staff was well received.
The lad has been made a scapegoat by people who still cannot believe that after four seasons GTFC are not back in the Football League and feel the need to channel that frustration onto an individual.
It may always have happened. It doesn't make it right.....

No-one advocates bullying of any type. The source of the club's problem is that a lack of goals would appear to be the reason which fans see as to why we didn't get promoted last season and the reason we have started so moderately this. LJL has been a constant in our attack, last season and this and he is flagged up by the manager as the basis of our attacking threat. Unfortunately, we were told of names that 'make the hairs on the back of our neck stand up' and we are left with a striker who has consistently failed to deliver.

Sadly, he has become a scapegoat but why has this happened? As someone said previously, he's an athlete not a footballer.

As regards LJL I'm not jumping on anyone's bandwagon, I haven't rated him (and have been saying so) since the first game he played, even the Bury fans were saying he gave plenty of effort but was crap in front of goal, and nothing has improved.

I would love him to start banging in goals and tell the rest of us to fuckoff but looking at his scoring record since he became a professional footballer that seems unlikely.

Unfortunately in this day of social media fans are going to complain/praise those that they want to, it may be a sad fact of life but that is the way it is and the fishy is no different from any other fans forum.  

Quoted from barralad

If you think that making someone a scapegoat repeatedly for the failure of a team of eleven men to win a football match isn't a form of bullying then so be it. Violence takes all sorts of forms. I suggest that you listen to some of the verbal abuse levelled at LJL from the stands.
I don't know what your working environment is like but I always found that publicly praising a member of my staff was well received.
The lad has been made a scapegoat by people who still cannot believe that after four seasons GTFC are not back in the Football League and feel the need to channel that frustration onto an individual.
It may always have happened. It doesn't make it right.....

Tbh i dont blame lenny for him being a hardworker but not a very good footballer i blame paul hurst for being so stubborn and not taking him out the team when he should have done..

Quoted from jonnyboy82

Tbh i dont blame lenny for him being a hardworker but not a very good footballer i blame paul hurst for being so stubborn and not taking him out the team when he should have done..

The lunacy of this argument at present is that injuries this season mean that we would have been playing with just one striker if LJL had been taken out of the team! If people want to moan about LJL playing when the other strikers are fit once again, fair enough, but we've just not had any choices this season due to injuries. Pittman clearly wasn't fit to start on Saturday, so we played the only two fit strikers we had. Why the controversy?

Quoted from Maringer

The lunacy of this argument at present is that injuries this season mean that we would have been playing with just one striker if LJL had been taken out of the team! If people want to moan about LJL playing when the other strikers are fit once again, fair enough, but we've just not had any choices this season due to injuries. Pittman clearly wasn't fit to start on Saturday, so we played the only two fit strikers we had. Why the controversy?

It doesnt just apply to these three games though does it ?

He has been first on the team sheet for far too long,the lad needs taking out the firing line for his own sake too.

Quoted from Theimperialcoroner

I clearly thought Peacock offered more to be team than others, but hey ho. What irks me is the attitude from Hurst that he knows better than those who pay his wages. This May or may not be the case, but at least show a bit of grace man you'd be better not saying anything.

Have they passed their UEFA badges? When they show they've the same knowledge, then yes, he's entitled to that opinion.

As regards Hurst's comments, I think it is pretty sad he has to keep bleating to the press about one of his players, if he wants to make an issue of it he should keep it in house and say to Lennie "look there are a number of fans out there who think you are crap go out and prove them wrong".

Whether or not he was having a go as he has done in the past when Lennie took that penalty I believe he is on a slippery slope to pissing off a fair number of supporters that will end up never backing him.

Despite AB's success he still managed to pissoff some fans because of his attitude at times.

Quoted from Saudimariner

No, it was right first time - "fewer" if a number is mentioned ("fewer than ten items"), but "less" if there is no number.  If you are going to criticize someone's grammar, please check your information before doing so.

Google is your friend.

"People often don’t know when to use less and when to use fewer in a sentence. Here’s how to get it right.

Use fewer if you’re referring to people or things in the plural (e.g. houses, newspapers, dogs, students, children, MANAGERS). For example:

"People these days are buying fewer newspapers."

"Fewer students are opting to study science-related subjects."

"Fewer than thirty children each year develop the disease."

"There will be FEWER managers..."
Use less when you’re referring to something that can’t be counted or doesn’t have a plural (e.g. money, air, time, music, rain). For example:

It’s a better job but they pay you less money.

People want to spend less time in traffic jams.

Ironically, when I’m on tour, I listen to less music.

Less is also used with numbers when they are on their own and with expressions of measurement or time, e.g.:

His weight fell from 18 stone to less than 12.

Their marriage lasted less than two years.

Heath Square is less than four miles away from Dublin city centre

Happy to help.  ;)

Just out of interest I am intrigued where this consistent arguement comes from that LJL doesnt contribute anything in terms of assists (its clear he never will in terms of goals). Last season he was our second top assister behind Neilson. I would say thats a fair rate of contribution.

Quoted from biggles9999

Just out of interest I am intrigued where this consistent arguement comes from that LJL doesnt contribute anything in terms of assists (its clear he never will in terms of goals). Last season he was our second top assister behind Neilson. I would say thats a fair rate of contribution.

Personally I think this business about assists is complete balderdash, there could be a number of passes that lead to a goal and it is not always the final pass that would be the best.

I would add that if he converted his many chances then someone else would likley be leading the assists chart. ;)

I don't think PH was having a go at the fans, just responding to criticism of one of his (and our) players. If he sees fit he is entitled to support members of the team, if he didn't there would be a poor reaction from the squad.

Quoted from Theimperialcoroner

Peacock marginalised by Scott/Hurst probably for having an opinion that differed to theirs.
Elding decent but idle.
Duffy just shite.
LJL appears to be a good lad who keeps his head down and works very hard. He is though an athlete and not a footballer, something that doesn't seem to bother Hurst. These comments in the paper are pretty pathetic, the sign of a man who knows he's wrong but keeps on repeating the manta anyway. He needs to sort out this running sore before things go mammaries up.

Peacock was utter wank before they arrived though.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

If the manager had gone, LJL might have gone too and Jennings, Rodman and others might have signed.

Yet equally Disley, Neilson and Mckeown who all offer far more than those two did have all signed again mentioning Hurst as a reason for doing so. Give me McKeown on his own over the Jennings and Rodman any day!

Not been on the Fishy properly for a few days so have only just caught up with this thread. Whilst I appreciate LJL isn't everyone's cup of tea and they're arguing he shouldn't be starting every game, we've played three games where we've only had two strikers available and the other one has been far worse than LJL has. If we'd had everyone available and he was still sticking blindly with LJL irrespective of performances then I'd agree but until he does it we can't criticise him for it. How can you criticise a manager for picking the only available player?!

Like others have said, in my opinion, LJL is great to have in the squad. For tough away games he is a fantastic option as his work rate is second to none and he is a real nuisance and his defensive contribution is much better than the likes of Hannah. Equally, the bits lacking in his game mean he's probably not the best option to start with against teams who are happy with a draw at BP as he hasn't the guile or knack of scoring that is needed for these situations. When we play these sort of teams I'd like to have Pittman as the muscle up front as I feel he has shown, albeit briefly, that he will pose much more of a goal threat than LJL. For games like that we need skill, pace and guile and I believe with the players we currently have our best set up would be something like this:

                     Pittman
Arnold          Neilson          Mackreth
            Disley/Paddy  Brown

Give Neilson a free role in the middle and with the pace outside forcing teams back or allowing us to get round the back of them we should be able to create a lot of chances. Then we can bring on LJL or Hannah depending on how the games going.

Quoted from grimsby pete

It's ok for posters on here to call for him to be sacked or call him clueless,

He reads the Fishy and answers a question and he gets slated for it,

He can not win.

He could win if he would drop Lewis

Quoted from 120797

So people want a passing game ?

Being realistic can't see any "passing game" taking shape unless the most creative midfield players return to full fitness and lots of work on the training ground is done.

Again, unrealistic unfair expectations !

That said Hurst says he WANTS to play a passing style, but guess he hasn't said he WILL.
Me ? I ideally WANT us to play like Brazil, sometimes you've got to be realistic...

However FWIW I think LJL is quite a good passer of the ball !

End of the day why can't fans just support the manager whatever style or players he chooses ?

Not sure about that, did you watch the World Cup?  ;)

Quoted from Tom13

Not sure about that, did you watch the World Cup?  ;)

We could sign McNulty to perform the Hulk role!

Quoted from Abdul19

We could sign McNulty to perform the Hulk role!

Connell already playing like Fred.

Quoted from Tom13

Not sure about that, did you watch the World Cup?  ;)

;D

Coming back to the LJL saga, I kind of see where Old Codger is coming from.

Do fans see lack of goals and instantly think the so called "main man" LJL is to blame ?
If so, I think this is the mistake they're making.
Course he'll score but for me, he's not in the side to score goals.

He's TARGET/HOLD UP MAN to provide and hopefully chip in.
If Town couldn't win would you think Neilson or Disley were at fault ?

As for being an "athelete" and not a footballer, "sticking goals away" isn't the only thing any footballer ever needs.

His vision, passing, tackling, commendable attitude (many players might have folded by now !), workrate (in addition to the very many PHYSICAL attributes) play don't get a mention  :-/

Are people not paying attention or just refusing to accept it's not all about goals  ?

Quoted from jungleland

He could win if he would drop Lewis

I'd suggest there could be "ball sticking up top" factors that might even make the situation appear a whole lot worse !
Who knows but it's risk.
But then it's "oh we need passing" like we've had the creative players available to work on it, let alone do it.

Perhaps fans need to make their minds up what the REAL issue is (e.g. we need a goalscorer alongside him ?) or preferably just get a grip on reality.

Quoted from jonnyboy82

It doesnt just apply to these three games though does it ?

He has been first on the team sheet for far too long,the lad needs taking out the firing line for his own sake too.

The question is when the strikers are fully fit and a full team to choose from will LJL name still be on that team sheet?

Also can anyone remember the last time LJL was not in the starting eleven? (Barring injury)

Quoted from cmackenzie4

The question is when the strikers are fully fit and a full team to choose from will LJL name still be on that team sheet?

Also can anyone remember the last time LJL was not in the starting eleven? (Barring injury)

Suspended for the Huddersfield game, cook played out of his skin, then Lewis back in the next game and cook dropped

Quoted from jonnyboy82

the lad needs taking out the firing line for his own sake too.

You're all heart !
Didn't bother him on Saturday.

Cook did reasonably well in the Huddersfield game but let's not kid ourselves he was brilliant. An 'assist' for Disley's goal but that came from a blocked shot which looped up into the air. But for that, Cook played well enough but didn't test the keeper at all that I recall.

At the time I actually thought he'd perhaps get a start in the next game, but not to be. I think the rumours indicated that he didn't work hard enough in training? In general, I simply think he just wasn't good enough or perhaps consistent enough and this is why he was released. I do agree he probably ought to have had a bit more game time last season, however, though I was not a fan of his.

Quoted from Abdul19

We could sign McNulty to perform the Hulk role!

From what I've seen of Hulk we could get Brian Blessed to play there and he'd still have the same effect!

Quoted from Maringer

Cook did reasonably well in the Huddersfield game but let's not kid ourselves he was brilliant. An 'assist' for Disley's goal but that came from a blocked shot which looped up into the air. But for that, Cook played well enough but didn't test the keeper at all that I recall.

At the time I actually thought he'd perhaps get a start in the next game, but not to be. I think the rumours indicated that he didn't work hard enough in training? In general, I simply think he just wasn't good enough or perhaps consistent enough and this is why he was released. I do agree he probably ought to have had a bit more game time last season, however, though I was not a fan of his.

That's fine, that's your opinion . Now your last sentence you state you wasn't a fan of Cook....that's the same as the negative ones on here now not being a fan of LJL . Just saying like.....

Quoted from ackomariner

That's fine, that's your opinion . Now your last sentence you state you wasn't a fan of Cook....that's the same as the negative ones on here now not being a fan of LJL . Just saying like.....

I don't recall Cook getting the amount of criticism last season as LJL gets. And Cook was nowhere near as effective last season as LJL was. And before someone says "Cook scored a few the season before", let's not kid ourselves. That was a season before and Cook did not look as fit or as interested in my opinion as he did in his first year. Barring the Huddersfield game he didn't look threatening (even then, it wasn't as though you thought he'd score every time he got it) and never took his chance when it came.

I'm not for a second saying everyone should be an LJL fan. He has a fair few flaws in his game. But he gets criticism to another level that is not deserved. Brown's miss at the weekend was the worst miss of the season and people have hardly mentioned it. Had LJL missed that he might well have been lynched.

If we drop Lewis and sign a goal scoring striker.

AND

He does not score,

Who do we blame then ?

Don't tell me, Hurst.

Hurst once said that if you play well you will keep youre place, in the Huddersfield game Cook played really well, as did most of the team, but was dropped for the next game. Cook was obviously a confidence player and IMO perhaps that is one of the reasons his confidence was shot and then maybe he let his standards drop in training !!

Quoted from gytone

Hurst once said that if you play well you will keep youre place, in the Huddersfield game Cook played really well, as did most of the team, but was dropped for the next game. Cook was obviously a confidence player and IMO perhaps that is one of the reasons his confidence was shot and he maybe let his standards drop in training !!

What about the four months of the season before that game?

Andy Cook
Who gives a fook
Andy Cook
Who gives a fook

Seriously though...
Could be ANY reason he was left out, tummy rumble, bendy knee etc
You might be right gytone but we'll just never know !

Nobody knows what happened before, but IMO he deserved to keep his place after the Hudders game, but yeah whatever he's not here anymore so it doesn't matter and we will definitely never know, just find Hurst and his comments a bit strange sometimes.....for example why the hell do we need a left back on loan  :-/

Quoted from gytone

Hurst once said that if you play well you will keep youre place, in the Huddersfield game Cook played really well, as did most of the team, but was dropped for the next game. Cook was obviously a confidence player and IMO perhaps that is one of the reasons his confidence was shot and then maybe he let his standards drop in training !!

Not exactly great man-manager IMHO. Further examples are the recent treatment of Winfarrah, the persistent refusal to give Southwell a go, and the I'Anson thing.

This 'swipe' at the fans is only really a follow-up to the post-Lennie penalty v Woking hissy-fit isn't it? The biggest and best way to stick two fingers up to the negativity is to go on an unbeaten run till Christmas - that might just make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up!  :)

Quoted from gytone

for example why the hell do we need a left back on loan  :-/

I'd guess because whether Winfarrah starts or not, you normally have 1 first choice and 1 back up left back ?
Before you say "he wasn't first choice the other day", that was at wing back, not left back.
Don't have all the answers, I'm just guessing here...

Have a read of this theory...
http://www.thefishy.co.uk/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl?m-1408351660/s-30/#num43

Quoted from mariner91

I don't recall Cook getting the amount of criticism last season as LJL gets. And Cook was nowhere near as effective last season as LJL was.

That's because Cook hardly played last season!

Effectiveness?

Player   Goals   Mins On Pitch    Mins Per Goal

LJL         8           3,684             460.50
Cook       7           1,497             213.86

I suppose it depends how you define 'effective' ....

"Hurst takes swipe at fans"

No he didn't.  Is this seriously how the forum's going to be until May?  Come on folks.

Quoted from HackneyHaddock

"Hurst takes swipe at fans"

No he didn't.  Is this seriously how the forum's going to be until May?  Come on folks.

I've a feeling it might not be lasting until May...

Quoted from ackomariner

That's fine, that's your opinion . Now your last sentence you state you wasn't a fan of Cook....that's the same as the negative ones on here now not being a fan of LJL . Just saying like.....

Yeah, I suppose I ought to go around spamming every other thread with anti-Cook digs and criticism, just to get into the current "Fishy vibe".

Quoted from Maringer

Yeah, I suppose I ought to go around spamming every other thread with anti-Cook digs and criticism, just to get into the current "Fishy vibe".

See what I mean, you stated you wasn't a fan of Cook, I've stated I'm not a fan of Lewis and now you come back with a load of boll ocks because it's not of the same opinion as you...

Quoted from gytone

Hurst once said that if you play well you will keep youre place, in the Huddersfield game Cook played really well, as did most of the team, but was dropped for the next game. Cook was obviously a confidence player and IMO perhaps that is one of the reasons his confidence was shot and then maybe he let his standards drop in training !!

The Huddersfield game was in January!  He looked unfit at the start of the season and got left behind. Cook had several chances to show what he could do and as I recall blew them all. One that sticks in my mind was the replay against Coalville when he was substituted to save him any further embarrassment...

Quoted from ackomariner

See what I mean, you stated you wasn't a fan of Cook, I've stated I'm not a fan of Lewis and now you come back with a load of boll ocks because it's not of the same opinion as you...

Nope, I was just being facetious. Just a sarky comment to point out that pretty much every thread on the forum has descended into diatribes against LJL or Hurst over the past few days. Endless (and mostly pointless) digs at both.

It'll be nice when the football begins again to give us something proper to talk about.

Quoted from Quagmire

That's because Cook hardly played last season!

Effectiveness?

Player   Goals   Mins On Pitch    Mins Per Goal

LJL         8           3,684             460.50
Cook       7           1,497             213.86

I suppose it depends how you define 'effective' ....

There is far more to being a good striker than just scoring goals. Cook's general play was next to useless last season hence why he finds himself in the BSN.

Quoted from mariner91

There is far more to being a good striker than just scoring goals. Cook's general play was next to useless last season hence why he finds himself in the BSN.

I'd say location and £££££ decided that.

Quoted from pontoonlew

I'd say location and £££££ decided that.

Perhaps but I shouldn't think he was in great demand any higher than that level because over two seasons his performances didn't warrant being at this level.

What do you mean about the £££££? We'd heard Cook was homesick during his time here so a move to the west coast was understandable (obviously well-settled over there), but he'll not be earning too much at Barrow I wouldn't expect.

I'd imagine that his pretty average goalscoring record over the past couple of years will probably mean that few, if any, Conference Premier clubs would have been interested in him.

Quoted from Maringer

What do you mean about the £££££? We'd heard Cook was homesick during his time here so a move to the west coast was understandable (obviously well-settled over there), but he'll not be earning too much at Barrow I wouldn't expect.

I'd imagine that his pretty average goalscoring record over the past couple of years will probably mean that few, if any, Conference Premier clubs would have been interested in him.

Barrow have got a rich benefactor but I think you're right about very few (if any) Conference teams being interested.

Ah, right. Didn't know that Barrow had a bit of dosh these days.

Quoted from Quagmire

That's because Cook hardly played last season!

Effectiveness?

Player   Goals   Mins On Pitch    Mins Per Goal

LJL         8           3,684             460.50
Cook       7           1,497             213.86

I suppose it depends how you define 'effective' ....

Genuine question as I'm intrigued. Where did you find minute on pitch stats for players in the conference?! And I thought LJL scored 9 and Cook scored 6?

Cook got a few in the League, but the others were in the Trophy, I suppose? A bit difficult to see as soccerbase is my go to site but they don't bother with the Trophy matches. Scanning through, it looks as though he only started around 10 matches - I thought he'd actually begun a few more than that. Must be getting the previous season's games mixed up with last season.

I'd be interested to see where the minutes per player stat came from as well.

Quoted from Maringer

Cook got a few in the League, but the others were in the Trophy, I suppose? A bit difficult to see as soccerbase is my go to site but they don't bother with the Trophy matches. Scanning through, it looks as though he only started around 10 matches - I thought he'd actually begun a few more than that. Must be getting the previous season's games mixed up with last season.

I'd be interested to see where the minutes per player stat came from as well.

Top of the page in the 'Season' section. At the bottom is previous seasons. Click on that then player profiles.

Quoted from ginnywings

Top of the page in the 'Season' section. At the bottom is previous seasons. Click on that then player profiles.

Thanks for that - have to admit I had no idea that The Fishy had that stuff available as I only ever look at the forum!

I note that they also show an "Average Weighted Points Contribution" as well. Cook's is extremely low for this, but I'd guess that this is because many of his appearances (and minutes on the pitch) were in the Trophy/Cup. This doesn't appear to have been factored in when considering the points won during Conference games.

Still, an interesting little resource.

Quoted from ginnywings

Top of the page in the 'Season' section. At the bottom is previous seasons. Click on that then player profiles.

Cheers Ginny. Had no idea it was there!

2 sides to every story. Nice to see Hurst pointing out that players have to earn the right to be in the team(and so they should) and does acknowledge does have his positives which is something I would agree with. As for his swipe at "some" fans and their view on his choice on John Lewis does have to take this on board as well as fans pay good money(overly so) to watch Town play in this division. If the opinion is justified and makes sense Hurst has to acknowledge these viewpoints. Though on another note I accept the job of a manager is difficult as what ever someone does there will always be opinions to the contrary. Hopefully though results pick up and we see a few wins and a move up the table and some people get of Hursts back. Because as much as I think he lacks some passion which admittedly not all managers have and have been successful without it eg think of  Del Bosque and Spain until recently I want him to succeed to with Town