Another perspective from abroad.

In regard to the discussion on this board and among the fans, I think that it may be quite interesting to compare the goings on in Grimsby with my home-town club Rosenborg in Norway. Actually, I think there are some similarities that would be of interest.

Where Grimsby had a lot of success some years ago with Alan Buckley - the Buckley of Rosenborg is named Nils Arne Eggen. Several years ago he not only took Rosenborg to the Champions League, but he also won the Norwegian League 13 seasons in a row with the club.
After he decided to retire from the club - there has been an endless line of managers going in and out of the club, in fact there have been 11 managers since 2002. In that period of time there have been little international success, but some domestic results have been reasonably good.

Why have the managers left the club? Mostly because the fans are very demanding. After a long period of success, people will not tolerate anything else. And the trouble is - it is not enough to win the league, they have to do it in a way that is pleasing for the eye. Free-flowing attacking football is what people crave. With lots of goals.
The problem is - football have changed since 2002. The other teams have developed their style, and it is not so easy to play the football that people are "used" to. They may not even have the players for it.
In 2004 the manager at the time won the Norwegian League, but got fired because he didn`t win it convincingly enough. It wasn`t enough to the win the league on goal difference when you are used to win it at least 15 points ahead of the next team. He also got the club through to the group stage of the Champions league. No - I am not making this up. It is true. Because of fan pressure on the board.
In October 2007 - another manager got fired the day after he led the team to a 2-0 win over Valencia at home. Reason? The results in the league were not good enough. Rosenborg ended up as number 5 that season. A good result considering other circumstances. Fan pressure on the board.
The current manager of the Swedish National team, Erik Hamrèn, took over as manager for the club in the summer of 2008 and had a very successful period at the club - winning the league in 2009 and 2010. He wasn`t fired, but have recently said this about his time at the club: "It was like I was to blame if it rained in Trondheim". "Everything was wrong. The football was too boring. I was to blame for less people at the matches and for players not evolving. If we won, we didn`t score enough goals. If we didn`t win, it wasn`t good enough, and if we won huge - we didn`t score enough goals in the first half of the game."
Hamrèn lost once in the league over two seasons, but were constantly critisised for not playing "attractive enough" football.

Rosenborg recently fired yet another manager - when they were around third/fourth place in the league after half a season. The reason is yet again - for not playing the attractive football that the fans would like.
So where are we now?
Yes - we have had some degree of success in this period, winning the league five times since 2002, but there have been endless moaning from the fans over the style of football being played. So, in a way, the strategy of constantly firing managers will sometimes get you the results, but people are still unhappy.

So - considering where Grimsby Town are at the moment, the dreaded Conference, where most of the players lack almost as much technical ability as the Norwegian national team, is it reasonable to think that the "boring" football that Hurst presumably plays will get us out of this league at one time?
Or is the solution to do like Rosenborg?

Or is the problem something entirely else?

I'd say it's not the right comparison because we didn't win 13 league titles or play in the Champions League. I don't think we're 'too demanding' at all, too demanding would be wanting to win league 1 perhaps. Wanting to score a few goals and get into the play-offs in the 5th tier of English football isn't demanding for a club of our size, in fact I think it's a minor miracle we're all still so relatively calm about it  

Geir, how good is that 15 year old who's going to get called up for the national team?

The problem is Geir ,Paul Hurst has a plan to get us out of this league,

It does not include playing attractive attacking football,

BUT

Does that matter as long as we get out of this conference shite,

As long as we get promoted I do not care how we do it,

Once we are back in the football league we can go out and play attractive football.

Lets just get there first.

Excellent post geir but it only highlights how much more fickle most Rosenborg fans are compared to us.  We haven't won anything in over a decade and we have been watching some of the worse players go through our club since the club was formed over 136 years ago.  As you have rightly identified we are playing at our lowest level and not pulling up any trees at that.

The problem has been;
not bringing in the right personnel for pre season,
for dropping players who have performed very well and putting a player in his position who struggles to play there,
not getting certain players coaching over the summer break to make them better,
for issuing pre match statements that are negative and turning fans away,
for negative, too defensive football
players apologising on social media for poor performances

Some fair and good comments in there Marinerz.

I won't sound like a cracked record or be picky, but bit confused about the 1st and 3rds ones.

As for the rest if you add them all up, are we expecting perfection, mistakes never to happen or perhaps just maybe too much ?
Just wondering...

Quoted from 120797

Some fair and good comments in there Marinerz.

I won't sound like a cracked record or be picky, but bit confused about the 1st and 3rds ones.

As for the rest if you add them all up, are we expecting perfection, mistakes never to happen or perhaps just maybe too much ?
Just wondering...

Thanks 80's,
1st  - not bringing in the right personnel for pre season; This has been were we have been very slow for years, we knew what players we needed to strengthen the squad in February.  These players should have been targeted before, even if it meant paying a fee.  The reason why we are always slow to start is because we are used to waiting for the scraps.  I am aware that certain agents can fudge things up, the early bird catches the worm so to speak.  Now we are waiting for players to gel because they haven't played together in a competitive match.

3rd - not getting certain players coaching over the summer break to make them better; players that have ability are worth investing in, players who you deem an integral part of your team need any weak areas addressing.  One or two current players come under that category and yes LJL would be one of them.  He works hard and deserves investing in, some players only grow with the right mentor.

We will never get perfection but the same mistakes over and over again are costing us promotion points.  If you seriously want to get out of this league you have to beat the weaker teams, especially at home.

We know BP can be a fortress and intimidating for visiting teams, we have had the stuffing knocked out of us for years now with very little to get us going.  The players need to realise the sort of backing they can get, the sort of noise we can create for them, they just need to deliver winning performances, especially at home.

An interesting perspective.

I've supported Town for about 35 years and we've always moaned.  I used to stand in the Constitutional Avene corner as a boy and the old blokes moaned even when Dave Booth took us within a whisper of division one.

In the Buckley era we were too fancy, never scored enough goals and the boo boys shouted 'Shoot' accompanied with swearwords of choice when Rees and Woods made pretty triangles outside the box.

Then when Russell Slade almost took us back up, we were too direct and didn't play enough pretty football. I also think some fans thought we were too good for Slade - who was he to manage Town?  He went on to greater things and we went down.

I don't know if Town fans are unique though.  I sometimes take my son to watch his team (Chelsea).  In recent years they have sacked managers for winning the league but not winning the Champions league or for winning the Champions league but being too boring.  This is a team that we used to play in the 2nd tier but now their fans are unhappy if they don't win everything and win in style.

All football fans are fickle moaners and we are no different.

Quoted from LondonMariner43

All football fans are fickle moaners and we are no different.

Yep. Geir's post is a great example of the lack of common sense shown by footy fans the world over.

A few years ago, we used to mock 'Massive' Wednesday fans for their arrogance and belief they were too good for the League they found themselves in. Now, we have some berating the players and management for not getting us out of what is described as a 'tin pot' League and for failing to beat part-time teams who have worked hard to lift themselves into the Conference. 180 degree role reversal.

Ach. I've wasted too much time on the current nonsense on the board this week. How embarrassing.

Let's hope we've got something to celebrate come Saturday evening. If not then, a victory on Monday would be nice.

Quoted from Abdul19

Geir, how good is that 15 year old who's going to get called up for the national team?

You mean Martin Ødegaard. He is one of a kind. He is technically brilliant and has a very strong body compared to most 15-year olds.
He has the possibility of being one of the best players from Norway ever. Only time will tell.

Here is a video showing some of his skills: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8d1yoqryTU

Quoted from geir

You mean Martin Ødegaard. He is one of a kind. He is technically brilliant and has a very strong body compared to most 15-year olds.
He has the possibility of being one of the best players from Norway ever. Only time will tell.

Here is a video showing some of his skills: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8d1yoqryTU

Good player you've got there for someone so young. If there good enough, play em.....

Quoted from geir

You mean Martin Ødegaard. He is one of a kind. He is technically brilliant and has a very strong body compared to most 15-year olds.
He has the possibility of being one of the best players from Norway ever. Only time will tell.

Here is a video showing some of his skills: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8d1yoqryTU

Good stuff, thanks Geir. Looks a real prospect, hopefully he'll stay in Norway a while longer rather than hoovered up by Chelsea or Man City.

He's not as good as Knut Anders Fostervold though

Quoted from Marinerz93

The reason why we are always slow to start is because we are used to waiting for the scraps.

True or not, you do kind of get that impression about player recruitment over the years !
Just hoping we targetted Pittman (and others returning) and they'll come up trumps.

Quoted from Marinerz93

We will never get perfection but the same mistakes over and over again are costing us promotion points.

Well if you ask me, guess what's happened is (rightly or wrongly)...
Hursty "took a point" at Bristol (see Clay coming on 88th min ?) thinking we'd be fine with 2 home games coming up.
Then Nuneaton parked the bus, players missed chances, causing disappointment and extra pressure on Dover.

Come Dover (their players and fans really "up for it" after 2 losses), the general vibe in the stands was fairly glum.
Not blaming the fans here at all but obviously it doesn't help (yet were still arguably unlucky & worthy of the win)

See how the downward cycle might happen if your lucks out ?

Quoted from Marinerz93

We know BP can be a fortress and intimidating for visiting teams

Completely agree it's where we need to be (or close as we can !)

Quoted from Marinerz93

we have had the stuffing knocked out of us for years now with very little to get us going.

Again, completely understand fans need something to feed off. (or maybe they actually don't but it sure helps !)  
All I'd say is, other teams often defend like mad.
That's why I don't generally buy the "negative football" thing at home last game - generally it's THEM not us !

So it's not easy (and mngr/players need to step up) but equally fans need to do all they can to raise their game too.
You've only got to look at the away support to see how it can be done.
Where are they when we need them ?  
That said, I'm a hippocrite - I sit in the Upper for a better view.
Hats off to the ponny lot though !
Don't know the practicalities but how about this suggestion of moving to the Osmond ?

Quoted from Marinerz93

The players need to realise the sort of backing they can get, the sort of noise we can create for them, they just need to deliver winning performances, especially at home.

Completely agree !!!
As Scunny and Huddersfield show we can almost beat anyone when everyone is up for it.  

Trouble now is, it's all a bit chicken and egg isn't it ?

Players certainly need to buckle down on Monday and grow an extra pair leaving no stone unturned there's no doubt !

Equally if fans really want the best chance of success, at some point (hopefully now !) they've got to recognize there's danger of a downward spiral (whoever is at fault) and do all they can to HELP inspire the players.

Like I said I'm a hippocrite playing football manager in the Upper.
But if I didn't have people I went with and the mood WAS dire, I'd be moving to the ponny in a flash making as much racket as I could.

Not really trying to knock or defend any moans and groans in the Upper here...
But if it bothers those fans I strongly suggest they move to the ponny and let rip !  

Quoted from 120797

Players certainly need to buckle down on Monday and grow an extra pair leaving no stone unturned there's no doubt !

Equally if fans really want the best chance of success, at some point (hopefully now !) they've got to recognize there's danger of a downward spiral (whoever is at fault) and do all they can to HELP inspire the players.

Like I said I'm a hippocrite playing football manager in the Upper.
But if I didn't have people I went with and the mood WAS dire, I'd be moving to the ponny in a flash making as much racket as I could.

Not really trying to knock or defend any moans and groans in the Upper here...
But if it bothers those fans I strongly suggest they move to the ponny and let rip !  

Some good points in your post 80's and I firmly believe the sooner we start winning and, winning consecutively the sooner a large part of our fan base can get out of this rut we seem to be in.  This is were the players step up as you rightly say and play their part.

You've almost got me positive  

[IMG]http://i62.tinypic.com/15f5gtg.gif[/IMG]

Good lad !  

Who knows what gonna happen Marinerz, I certainly don't.  
But I do take some minor comfort we've bounced back when the moods looked doom and gloom during the season before.

End of the day the major responsibility lies with the manager and those out on the pitch.

Quoted from grimsby pete

Does that matter as long as we get out of this conference shite,

As long as we get promoted I do not care how we do it,

Once we are back in the football league we can go out and play attractive football.

Lets just get there first.

I am not in the "Hurst out" group but I think this kind of thinking is seriously flawed, Pete. Just because the football is bad does't guarantee promotion. I know you haven't claimed it does but that raises the question as to why boring football becomes acceptable at all?

I do agree that promotion would make it all worthwhile but the cold reality is we will probably not get promoted this year. We will have to improve significantly to make the play offs and then have roughly just a 25% chance of success. Given that, surely the quality and excitement week to week becomes extremely important.

  

Quoted from geir

You mean Martin Ødegaard. He is one of a kind. He is technically brilliant and has a very strong body compared to most 15-year olds.
He has the possibility of being one of the best players from Norway ever. Only time will tell.

Here is a video showing some of his skills: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8d1yoqryTU

Nice little video, you've certainly got a player on your hands there Geir!

As someone else said 'if they're good enough, play em'. Youngsters need the chance if they're good enough or you'll never know...

Quoted from Mariners_15

Nice little video, you've certainly got a player on your hands there Geir!

As someone else said 'if they're good enough, play em'. Youngsters need the chance if they're good enough or you'll never know...

Totally agree with this. And even if the youngsters may not be "complete" players, they have a drive and desire that many of the older players lack and that compensates for any possible short-comings in other areas.