Just a point regarding the management

No experience of professional football between them. And it shows.

Text book class room coaches  nothing more,, a manager is a complete different animal

Quoted from MuddyWaters

No experience of professional football between them. And it shows.

Their lack of experience performed miracles last season, lets look at the budget and why he couldn't bring a striker in.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

No experience of professional football between them. And it shows.

Yeah that's the problem. Probably why Lincoln are struggling as well.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

No experience of professional football between them. And it shows.

False. The Swedish top flight is professional. Paul Hurst didn't have any professional experience as a manager prior to his arrival at Grimsby.

Make a valid point if you're going to make one.

Quoted from Paris Mariner

False. The Swedish top flight is professional. Paul Hurst didn't have any professional experience as a manager prior to his arrival at Grimsby.

Make a valid point if you're going to make one.

It is valid if you talk about playing. MJ never played a single game as a professional. I don't think Limbrick did either. Or Slade for that matter. PH played 100s of games at a far higher level than he ever managed us at.

Quoted from Marinerz93

Their lack of experience performed miracles last season, lets look at the budget and why he couldn't bring a striker in.

He had Wilkinson and Warrington with him last year. Limbrick and Forrest came in the summer.

I wonder what experience of playing and football management some of the experts on here have?
Perhaps a few may have a couple of badges running a kids football team to ensure theirs kids got in the team.
If you have experience in one, the other or both then just drop me a little green ✅

Quoted from Paris Mariner

False. The Swedish top flight is professional. Paul Hurst didn't have any professional experience as a manager prior to his arrival at Grimsby.

Make a valid point if you're going to make one.

Playing experience?

I am sure Hurst got paid when he was  Boston Manager.

Carlton Cole is desperate to play. I reckon he could score with his eyes closed at this level.

Get him on a month's trial, then take it from there!

Quoted from grimsby pete

I am sure Hurst got paid when he was  Boston Manager.

As did our management team at their former respective clubs where they coached.

Sacchi, Wenger, Mourinho etc etc etc.

The problem isn't the lack of professional playing experience amongst the management/coaching staff, it's that we're playing crap at the moment and seemingly nobody is able to raise their game to help drag us out of the mire we're getting ourselves into. I'd guess that Jolley has a game or two left before the trigger is pulled but, if that happens, I haven't a clue where we'll go from here. Both experienced and up and coming managers seem to suffer from the same problems so who would we really go for next?

We're (naturally) analysing things at a micro level right now, but for the true state of our current predicament we need to look at things from a macro level.

We've tried in-house appointments (Groves, Rodger, Woods), nostalgic appointments (Buckley, Slade... if you will), we've tried a 'big' name who has a Premier League winners' medal and had two, if not three, promotions as a manager (Newell). We've tried up-and-coming managers (Hurst, Bignot) and someone who has every qualification going (Jolley).

I guess the one type of manager we haven't tried is an old head; someone vastly experienced at this level, but what is abundantly clear is that, with every single managerial appointment, there appears to be absolutely no long-term planning.

If we were Crewe, we'd have a 'type' of manager we're after because the club has a clear identity and philosophy.

Instead, we have Fenty and a board that don't have a clue what they want or need. Each managerial appointment seems to be in direct contrast from the previous failure in the hope that it would somehow reverse our fortunes.

And I really don't think they have the football intelligence to go any deeper than that.

I know we've been hammering this point for so long now but you can't ignore what is obvious. Since Fenty became chairman we have had all types of managers trying to progress this football club and, Hurst apart, none have achieved anything.

We could get Eddie Howe in tomorrow and, given a few months, he'd fail. That's because there's something intrinsically wrong with Grimsby Town Football Club - the evidence stretches back 16 or so years - and until that changes it really doesn't matter whether Jolley stays or goes.

And it doesn't matter who comes in. They're bound to struggle and fail.

I wish it wasn't like this but, honestly, what do you see in this club that makes you think, genuinely think, that we'll enjoy any sort of success while Fenty and the current board are making all the decisions?

I really don't want to drag the word Hurst back into things but, if rumours were to be believed, he wasn't given what he asked for to progress this club. That might have been his own personal demands alongside a S&C coach and many other things but, when you look back over the last two years since he left this club, how much money have we wasted on other players, managers and mutually terminating contracts?

And we've fallen back since then. I have no doubts whatsoever that if we'd have given Hurst what he wanted, we'd not be in our current predicament and we'd (probably) be higher in the league and financially better off.

This club has a rotten core. After having fluked our return to the FL we've been nothing but awful since then. We were awful in the two or three years before we got relegated from it as well.

A struggling fourth division side, with six years in non-league. If Fenty really does think he's our saviour, and if he really does believe he can lead us forward on and off the pitch, then he needs his head testing.

Quoted from RichMariner

We're (naturally) analysing things at a micro level right now, but for the true state of our current predicament we need to look at things from a macro level.

We've tried in-house appointments (Groves, Rodger, Woods), nostalgic appointments (Buckley, Slade... if you will), we've tried a 'big' name who has a Premier League winners' medal and had two, if not three, promotions as a manager (Newell). We've tried up-and-coming managers (Hurst, Bignot) and someone who has every qualification going (Jolley).

I guess the one type of manager we haven't tried is an old head; someone vastly experienced at this level, but what is abundantly clear is that, with every single managerial appointment, there appears to be absolutely no long-term planning.

If we were Crewe, we'd have a 'type' of manager we're after because the club has a clear identity and philosophy.

Instead, we have Fenty and a board that don't have a clue what they want or need. Each managerial appointment seems to be in direct contrast from the previous failure in the hope that it would somehow reverse our fortunes.

And I really don't think they have the football intelligence to go any deeper than that.

I know we've been hammering this point for so long now but you can't ignore what is obvious. Since Fenty became chairman we have had all types of managers trying to progress this football club and, Hurst apart, none have achieved anything.

We could get Eddie Howe in tomorrow and, given a few months, he'd fail. That's because there's something intrinsically wrong with Grimsby Town Football Club - the evidence stretches back 16 or so years - and until that changes it really doesn't matter whether Jolley stays or goes.

And it doesn't matter who comes in. They're bound to struggle and fail.

I wish it wasn't like this but, honestly, what do you see in this club that makes you think, genuinely think, that we'll enjoy any sort of success while Fenty and the current board are making all the decisions?

I really don't want to drag the word Hurst back into things but, if rumours were to be believed, he wasn't given what he asked for to progress this club. That might have been his own personal demands alongside a S&C coach and many other things but, when you look back over the last two years since he left this club, how much money have we wasted on other players, managers and mutually terminating contracts?

And we've fallen back since then. I have no doubts whatsoever that if we'd have given Hurst what he wanted, we'd not be in our current predicament and we'd (probably) be higher in the league and financially better off.

This club has a rotten core. After having fluked our return to the FL we've been nothing but awful since then. We were awful in the two or three years before we got relegated from it as well.

A struggling fourth division side, with six years in non-league. If Fenty really does think he's our saviour, and if he really does believe he can lead us forward on and off the pitch, then he needs his head testing.

Best post for a long time - can't disagree with a word of it.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

No experience of professional football between them. And it shows.

Didn't show at the end of last season when he took a group of underachievers and got us out of the mire. I'm not saying he'll get it right but surely he needs time to show he can

Quoted from VinnyGTFC

Didn't show at the end of last season when he took a group of underachievers and got us out of the mire. I'm not saying he'll get it right but surely he needs time to show he can

Said before that I think he deserves another month but what then? Someone at the football club needs to kick behind because that squad of players should not be performing like that - 1 point out of 15 at home is relegation form whichever way you dress it up.

Quoted from VinnyGTFC

Didn't show at the end of last season when he took a group of underachievers and got us out of the mire. I'm not saying he'll get it right but surely he needs time to show he can

But how long? A week, a month two months, a year? Do we really have this time? Almost a quarter of the season gone and we have
accumulated 5 points, three of those against the only club in the FL below us, 1 point achieved at home and two hidings before September is out.
Unfortunately performances are getting progressively worse, players body language after conceding is appalling and can anyone really see this changing any time soon?
MJ has a win record of 5 in 20, not even as good as that clown  Slade and three of those wins were gained by debatable penalties, sorry but as nice a chap  as MJ seems, this cannot be allowed to continue or we will find ourselves in another Woods situation and we all know how that turned out  d'ont we?
We need a manager who the players respect and a manager who ensures that the players do not roll over and give up, which seems to be the case at the moment, some will say well who? I would go with a name others have suggested, Gary Bowyer., who performed miracles at a club even in more turmoil than us and that IS saying something!

Quoted from RichMariner

We've tried in-house appointments (Groves, Rodger, Woods), nostalgic appointments (Buckley, Slade... if you will), we've tried a 'big' name who has a Premier League winners' medal and had two, if not three, promotions as a manager (Newell). We've tried up-and-coming managers (Hurst, Bignot) and someone who has every qualification going (Jolley).

I guess the one type of manager we haven't tried is an old head; someone vastly experienced at this level, but what is abundantly clear is that, with every single managerial appointment, there appears to be absolutely no long-term planning.

I'd say Slade and Buckley were old heads as well as nostalgic appointments. Both had many years experience at this level and above.

Quoted Text

If we were Crewe, we'd have a 'type' of manager we're after because the club has a clear identity and philosophy.

Instead, we have Fenty and a board that don't have a clue what they want or need. Each managerial appointment seems to be in direct contrast from the previous failure in the hope that it would somehow reverse our fortunes.

1 - It isn't working very well for Crewe.
2 - I think we did have a plan. A young up and coming manager that values young players and gives them opportunities that we can hopefully develop and build on or sell for a profit. This is actually very similar to the "Crewe model".
The club have clearly bought into MJ's approach given the number of 2+ year contracts that have been handed out.

Quoted Text

That's because there's something intrinsically wrong with Grimsby Town Football Club - the evidence stretches back 16 or so years - and until that changes it really doesn't matter whether Jolley stays or goes.

And it doesn't matter who comes in. They're bound to struggle and fail.

I wish it wasn't like this but, honestly, what do you see in this club that makes you think, genuinely think, that we'll enjoy any sort of success while Fenty and the current board are making all the decisions?

What decisions is Fenty making that are actually affecting things on the pitch? The club set a budget and the manager chooses how to spend it. The board don't interfere with player selection or recruitment, whenever that happens, the manager is always quick to put it in the press to take blame away from himself and there hasn't been any manager that has ever suggested this. We don't make much money or pay off director loans each year, so the budget can't be that bad. They hired the manager that 1, everybody wanted and 2, kept us in the league last season.

Quoted from pen penfras

I'd say Slade and Buckley were old heads as well as nostalgic appointments. Both had many years experience at this level and above.



1 - It isn't working very well for Crewe.
2 - I think we did have a plan. A young up and coming manager that values young players and gives them opportunities that we can hopefully develop and build on or sell for a profit. This is actually very similar to the "Crewe model".
The club have clearly bought into MJ's approach given the number of 2+ year contracts that have been handed out.



What decisions is Fenty making that are actually affecting things on the pitch? The club set a budget and the manager chooses how to spend it. The board don't interfere with player selection or recruitment, whenever that happens, the manager is always quick to put it in the press to take blame away from himself and there hasn't been any manager that has ever suggested this. We don't make much money or pay off director loans each year, so the budget can't be that bad. They hired the manager that 1, everybody wanted and 2, kept us in the league last season.

Good to hear from the board spokesman - can you tell me why a director told a friend of mine that John Askey was offered the job?

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Good to hear from the board spokesman - can you tell me why a director told a friend of mine that John Askey was offered the job?

Oh, I see. Somebody else was offered the job before most people on here ever knew who Michael Jolley was. And that is your answer to how Fenty is affecting things on the pitch. Sack the board!

Quoted from pen penfras

Oh, I see. Somebody else was offered the job before most people on here ever knew who Michael Jolley was. And that is your answer to how Fenty is affecting things on the pitch. Sack the board!

I've also spoken to Paul Hurst since he left, strange how we've now got two fitness coaches when he wasn't allowed one.

Quoted from pen penfras

I'd say Slade and Buckley were old heads as well as nostalgic appointments. Both had many years experience at this level and above.



1 - It isn't working very well for Crewe.
2 - I think we did have a plan. A young up and coming manager that values young players and gives them opportunities that we can hopefully develop and build on or sell for a profit. This is actually very similar to the "Crewe model".
The club have clearly bought into MJ's approach given the number of 2+ year contracts that have been handed out.

As you are in the know, how does our budget compare to other clubs, ie are we in the top quarter or as claimed in other threads bottom quarter.

What decisions is Fenty making that are actually affecting things on the pitch? The club set a budget and the manager chooses how to spend it. The board don't interfere with player selection or recruitment, whenever that happens, the manager is always quick to put it in the press to take blame away from himself and there hasn't been any manager that has ever suggested this. We don't make much money or pay off director loans each year, so the budget can't be that bad. They hired the manager that 1, everybody wanted and 2, kept us in the league last season.

As you are in the know, how does our budget compare to other clubs, ie are we in the top quarter or as claimed in other threads bottom quarter.

No manager lets an employee set about their work without the right tools or equipment, Fenty has sat on his hands when we've all known since the start of the season we need wingers with pace and a striker. Were is Fenty's input to the manager, otherwise Jolley is just set up to fail.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Good to hear from the board spokesman - can you tell me why a director told a friend of mine that John Askey was offered the job?

Why when someone presents (and quite well IMO) an alternative point of view do you and others have to resort to the stance that the poster must be close to the board/Fenty's relative/an actual board member? It stifles debate.
As for your point about John Askey I fail to see what you are getting at. It's clear to me that the poster meant the fans by "everyone" and whilst that might be a bit of an exaggeration it's not that far from the reaction on here is it? It's hardly news that someone turns down a job ....

Quoted from barralad

Why when someone presents (and quite well IMO) an alternative point of view do you and others have to resort to the stance that the poster must be close to the board/Fenty's relative/an actual board member? It stifles debate.
As for your point about John Askey I fail to see what you are getting at. It's clear to me that the poster meant the fans by "everyone" and whilst that might be a bit of an exaggeration it's not that far from the reaction on here is it? It's hardly news that someone turns down a job ....

There is a quote on Twitter that last March Gary Holt says he was offered the Town job but a day later it all went quiet before Jolley was appointed. Just ‘seems’ a lack of professionalism that will get around and lesson our chances of getting a man moving forward.

Back to the original question about how Fenty and the board cannot effect things on the pitch I tend to disagree. They set, or at least should set, the vibe, the ethos, the dna of the club. A positive, vibrant leadership which soaks every pore of the club can and needs to get to the playing side too. Of course Fenty cannot pass, head or shoot on a Saturday but he is responsible as he is the head of the business. All these years of under achieving would mean he would have been long gone in any other business.
If Jolley goes then the next incumbent will have the same depressing environment to work within.

Quoted from Cloudy

If Jolley goes then the next incumbent will have the same depressing environment to work within.

Almost certainly but hopefully the next man will have some experience and therefore some idea what he's supposed to be doing and will be able to work within it

Quoted from barralad

Why when someone presents (and quite well IMO) an alternative point of view do you and others have to resort to the stance that the poster must be close to the board/Fenty's relative/an actual board member? It stifles debate.
As for your point about John Askey I fail to see what you are getting at. It's clear to me that the poster meant the fans by "everyone" and whilst that might be a bit of an exaggeration it's not that far from the reaction on here is it? It's hardly news that someone turns down a job ....

Err.....because they are!

Quoted from Ipswin

Almost certainly but hopefully the next man will have some experience and therefore some idea what he's supposed to be doing and will be able to work within it

Like a Russel Slade?

Quoted from Cloudy

Like a Russel Slade?

That's the boy! The man Jolley is modelling himself on

Quoted from Cloudy

Like a Russel Slade?

I never want that man within.an airplane flight of this club ever again....
Tell you who'd I've a sniff at, Russ Wilcox, maybe he did flop at york but certainly took scunny to another level...
Whoever we bring in, this job is a poisoned chalice..
In any job you need good support from your managers, taking it that the board are the clubs manager there's less support in a snakes spine!!...yes, I know,they dont have one!!

Quoted from GrimRob

It is valid if you talk about playing. MJ never played a single game as a professional. I don't think Limbrick did either. Or Slade for that matter. PH played 100s of games at a far higher level than he ever managed us at.

Arsene Wenger didn't exactly have a glittering playing career.

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

I never want that man within.an airplane flight of this club ever again....
Tell you who'd I've a sniff at, Russ Wilcox, maybe he did flop at york but certainly took scunny to another level...

Christ, I'd rather have Newell back

Gary Bowyer or Ian Holloway for me. Someone who doesn't mix their punches and aren't afraid of telling the truth.

I'm sure either of them two wouldn't be standing on the touchline, arms folded whilst Morecambe make us chase shadows.

Rich Mariner is right. We could appoint umpteen managers (and we have) but the results will remain the same. We got out of non league in spite of the board not because of the board. If you carry on doing what you are doing you will carry on getting what you've got. Luck will only get you so far.

Surely for any club to ambitious and slightly successful you have to always invest into the playing staff / budget and we haven't for 5 years. So maybe that's where the issue lies.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Gary Bowyer or Ian Holloway for me. Someone who doesn't mix their punches and aren't afraid of telling the truth.

I'm sure either of them two wouldn't be standing on the touchline, arms folded whilst Morecambe make us chase shadows.

I can see that working well with the Major Creditor.

Quoted from barralad

Why when someone presents (and quite well IMO) an alternative point of view do you and others have to resort to the stance that the poster must be close to the board/Fenty's relative/an actual board member? It stifles debate.
As for your point about John Askey I fail to see what you are getting at. It's clear to me that the poster meant the fans by "everyone" and whilst that might be a bit of an exaggeration it's not that far from the reaction on here is it? It's hardly news that someone turns down a job ....

To me it illustrates that the board didn't know what type of manager they wanted. John Fenty also said at the time he was looking for a "Brian Laws-type" ex-player looking to get into management and invited Sol Campbell for a chat. Phil Brown and Stuart McCall also claimed to have been contacted.

They, along with Askey, are all very different candidates and Michael Jolley was different again. It suggested, that the board were throwing darts at a list of names rather than having a clear idea and philosophy like the one outlined in Jolley's appointment.

That philosophy was a long term play. It was going to require full support from the board, not mere lip service and also patience from us as supporters. It's fair to say we are struggling with the latter.

The board may be having even bigger qualms. It maybe wasn't their philosophy in the first place, instead one that Jolley brought to them. If they sack Jolley, are they binning what was and is a great philosophy as well? Then we will be back throwing darts at names.

Quoted from mirrorballman

To me it illustrates that the board didn't know what type of manager they wanted. John Fenty also said at the time he was looking for a "Brian Laws-type" ex-player looking to get into management and invited Sol Campbell for a chat. Phil Brown and Stuart McCall also claimed to have been contacted.

They, along with Askey, are all very different candidates and Michael Jolley was different again. It suggested, that the board were throwing darts at a list of names rather than having a clear idea and philosophy like the one outlined in Jolley's appointment.

That philosophy was a long term play. It was going to require full support from the board, not mere lip service and also patience from us as supporters. It's fair to say we are struggling with the latter.

The board may be having even bigger qualms. It maybe wasn't their philosophy in the first place, instead one that Jolley brought to them. If they sack Jolley, are they binning what was and is a great philosophy as well? Then we will be back throwing darts at names.

I guess what you are saying then. Is that we need to stick with MJ because  we simply can’t trust the board to formulate a plan for the future. And as sad as it may seem I actually agree with you. Our board are clearly incapable of structuring a solid way FORWARD for GTFC. Or somehow raising the finance to do so.
Any new manager will be joining with all the problems and lack of real (not lip service) support from the board. At least MJ is aware now of what he has got himself into, so let’s give him time to try and fix things that he started. I think most of us feel that the Freemo project will be the make or break for us. We just need something positive to lift us. Something this owner seems YET AGAIN reluctant to do.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Playing experience?

Laurie Mac ?

Quoted from "Pen Penfras"

What decisions is Fenty making that are actually affecting things on the pitch? The club set a budget and the manager chooses how to spend it. The board don't interfere with player selection or recruitment, whenever that happens, the manager is always quick to put it in the press to take blame away from himself and there hasn't been any manager that has ever suggested this. We don't make much money or pay off director loans each year, so the budget can't be that bad. They hired the manager that 1, everybody wanted and 2, kept us in the league last season.

Since John Fenty has been in charge of this club it has gone from being a Championship Club all the way down to non-league, scrapped back in after 6 years of non-league and now it looks like we are heading back there again for the second time under his stewardship. We manged 99 consecutive years as a football league before he came along.

And you doubt the decisions Fenty makes has an any affect on the pitch?

And let's get rid of this idea that because the fans wanted Jolley it absolves Fenty or the board of any blame.

The fans just see and read things about the manger and that is how they decide. They don't do any due diligence, they don't interview any candidates. This is Fenty's and the board's job and the decision is theirs and theirs alone.

Now, I still hope Jolley can turn this around although after Saturday it's difficult to see how he can but enough of this "he was the fans choice so you can't blame Fenty or the board".

If they come on here and read who the fans want as the next manager, before choosing, we are in worse trouble than what I thought.

Quoted from Civvy at last

I guess what you are saying then. Is that we need to stick with MJ because  we simply can’t trust the board to formulate a plan for the future. And as sad as it may seem I actually agree with you. Our board are clearly incapable of structuring a solid way FORWARD for GTFC. Or somehow raising the finance to do so.
Any new manager will be joining with all the problems and lack of real (not lip service) support from the board. At least MJ is aware now of what he has got himself into, so let’s give him time to try and fix things that he started. I think most of us feel that the Freemo project will be the make or break for us. We just need something positive to lift us. Something this owner seems YET AGAIN reluctant to do.

I suppose I am. Ordinarily, I wouldn't be upset or surprised if MJ was sacked based on the run of bad results alone. Yet, in this situation, like you say, a new manager will come in and all the underlying problems are still there.

It's hard to get away from the need for change at board level. The club is either terribly unlucky or there is something not right in how it is run. In support of the latter, I will point to something minor yet revealing in the programme on Saturday: Half the player sponsorships remain unsold. I have not seen the club pushing or advertising their availability. I've sponsored a player before, it's a great package for a fan in my view and easy money for the club. So why aren't they pushing it?

There are plenty of other cases, the annual season ticket malaise being the best example. If the 'customer' facing elements aren't right, what makes you think anything else will be. I think there is a complacency that runs through the club. It was part of the recipe that relegated us in 2010 and hasn't gone away.

Quoted from pen penfras

1 - It isn't working very well for Crewe.
2 - I think we did have a plan. A young up and coming manager that values young players and gives them opportunities that we can hopefully develop and build on or sell for a profit. This is actually very similar to the "Crewe model".
The club have clearly bought into MJ's approach given the number of 2+ year contracts that have been handed out.

I don't disagree with your second point. I believe we did have a 'plan', for this appointment, and I agree with the Jolley appointment and everything that came with it, but if that really was the plan then, like others have said, why did we approach managers like Phil Brown, John Askey, etc?

We seem to change our attitude, quite drastically, with every appointment. Slade was almost the complete opposite of Jolley.

So what kind of club are we? What type of managers do we usually appoint to help us succeed with this vision? None of them seem to be very similar.

I appreciate Crewe aren't setting the football world on fire but they haven't had six years in non-league while, season after season, they continue to bring through not just one or two youth players but five or six. This philosophy and succession planning has been there for decades now and while they might also be in the bottom half of the fourth division they're incredibly well run off the pitch and do not face the same problems we've faced during that time.

Every now and again they'll name a starting XI made entirely of their own youth players (usually in the trophy).

I'm not saying we should copy their strategy; it's just an example of a club that has a clear vision and knows exactly what to do and who to target when they feel they need a change of manager.

We, for quite some time now, seem to close our eyes, cross our fingers and hope that we somehow land a manager that can work wonders. And, if he does, and he delivers a promotion, we're then too dumb to back him because, you know, he's dour in interviews and everything.

Bet Mr Slade's smirking

Quoted from Gibson617

Bet Mr Slade's smirking

He has nothing to smirk about his decision to let Pearson go effectively started this slide

Quoted from 1mickylyons

He has nothing to smirk about his decision to let Pearson go effectively started this slide

Honestly think the conversations were having about Collins would have been about Pearson instead ,ones legs have gone and the other didn’t have any in the first place. I know he’s a great lad good pro etc but just not FL standard we simply need better

We could have had SOL-I think he has a little bit of football experience-God help us if we had. Slade had a lot of experience but the wrong sort. Ayrton is possibly available-sure he would relish the job-J.S.F.could hand over his complete wealth for 1 year. FFS.

Quoted from dapperz fun pub

Honestly think the conversations were having about Collins would have been about Pearson instead ,ones legs have gone and the other didn’t have any in the first place. I know he’s a great lad good pro etc but just not FL standard we simply need better

Doesn't say much about who MJ has signed then.

Also some said the same about Andy Cook and he is now playing in the league above us.

Quoted from dapperz fun pub

Honestly think the conversations were having about Collins would have been about Pearson instead ,ones legs have gone and the other didn’t have any in the first place. I know he’s a great lad good pro etc but just not FL standard we simply need better

Nathan Clarke, Karleigh Osborne, Harry Davis, Alex Whitmore...

Which of those subsequent replacements are better than Pearson?

I couldn't disagree more that he's not FL standard, he was doing fine before he was released and was actually out-performing Collins in that back 3 in the final games under Bignot.  But that's an argument for another day...  But the decision to release a dressing room leader at the same time as the other leader (Disley - who I understand the reasons for not retaining) was absolute lunacy.  We've still not recovered from that, nearly a year and half on.  

Quoted from RichMariner

I don't disagree with your second point. I believe we did have a 'plan', for this appointment, and I agree with the Jolley appointment and everything that came with it, but if that really was the plan then, like others have said, why did we approach managers like Phil Brown, John Askey, etc?

We seem to change our attitude, quite drastically, with every appointment. Slade was almost the complete opposite of Jolley.

So what kind of club are we? What type of managers do we usually appoint to help us succeed with this vision? None of them seem to be very similar.

I appreciate Crewe aren't setting the football world on fire but they haven't had six years in non-league while, season after season, they continue to bring through not just one or two youth players but five or six. This philosophy and succession planning has been there for decades now and while they might also be in the bottom half of the fourth division they're incredibly well run off the pitch and do not face the same problems we've faced during that time.

Every now and again they'll name a starting XI made entirely of their own youth players (usually in the trophy).

I'm not saying we should copy their strategy; it's just an example of a club that has a clear vision and knows exactly what to do and who to target when they feel they need a change of manager.

We, for quite some time now, seem to close our eyes, cross our fingers and hope that we somehow land a manager that can work wonders. And, if he does, and he delivers a promotion, we're then too dumb to back him because, you know, he's dour in interviews and everything.

I often have a plan. Equally as often I don't have the money, the brains, the contacts or the nous to make anything of it. In fact I remind myself of a certain football club I know well.

Just a point tonight will do me, never mind the management.