The reality

Last season when looking for a manager Micheal Jolleys name came up. He  was a risky yet interesting shot. Most fans liked the sound of him.
John Fenty took a punt on him. The man delivered and to the delight of most fans Jolley remained manager.
Now there are big shouts to replace this man without giving him the chance to sort the mess out and calls for Fenty to go despite doing what 80% of supporters would have done.
Don't get it!!!

Perhaps it's the last 16/17 years of failure that people are upset about!  It clearly isn't working! Hope this doesn't turn out to be another Russell Slade or Neil Woods situation!!

Yes MJ was a popular choice but it’s hasnt worked out unfortunately, can we risk another relegation to non league.

Quoted from Yoda

Yes MJ was a popular choice but it’s hasnt worked out unfortunately, can we risk another relegation to non league.

Which is what we'll get year after year with the people currently running the club.

MJ is just a symptom.

Quoted from Yoda

Yes MJ was a popular choice but it’s hasnt worked out unfortunately, can we risk another relegation to non league.

Yep, after 10 games it doesn’t look good. But as I said on another post, we have no money, we are in the relegation zone. If we get someone else in what’s he going to do with someone else’s team and no money? I don’t think even Pep could do much. I think we’ve got to dig deep, stay together and turn it around, I think that’s the only option.

The reality is that we have a well qualified coach for a manager . Two totaly different things...thats the problem. he is out of his depth and it will not improve enough to keep us up unless we get a manager in

Quoted from VinnyGTFC

Last season when looking for a manager Micheal Jolleys name came up. He  was a risky yet interesting shot. Most fans liked the sound of him.
John Fenty took a punt on him. The man delivered and to the delight of most fans Jolley remained manager.
Now there are big shouts to replace this man without giving him the chance to sort the mess out and calls for Fenty to go despite doing what 80% of supporters would have done.
Don't get it!!!

Absolutely spot on Vinny,

You say we cannot afford another change look at the gates dropping like a stone even with a ticket offer on.
Can we afford to keep MJ is the question.

Quoted from denni266

The reality is that we have a well qualified coach for a manager . Two totaly different things...thats the problem. he is out of his depth and it will not improve enough to keep us up unless we get a manager in

Spot on, coaching qualification is based 90% on theoretical situations within a classroom environment and not on the training ground. Management is a totally different animal which means inspiring confidence and getting the best out of players by means of man management, both of which re not happening at the moment.
I like Jolley as a person and i think he's an honest guy, but at the moment he's lacking the necessary skills required for a manager.

Quoted from VinnyGTFC

Last season when looking for a manager Micheal Jolleys name came up. He  was a risky yet interesting shot. Most fans liked the sound of him.
John Fenty took a punt on him. The man delivered and to the delight of most fans Jolley remained manager.
Now there are big shouts to replace this man without giving him the chance to sort the mess out and calls for Fenty to go despite doing what 80% of supporters would have done.
Don't get it!!!

What choice did we have? Other preferred managers (to some) had said no.

Of course we got behind him,as we will the next manager and the one after that. We wanted him to succeed, but it hasn't worked. Looking back to last season, we were incredibly lucky to survive really - it could easily have gone the other way and Michael Jolley would not be here now.

I am beginning to think that too much theory and not enough experience of lower league football will be his downfall. It is such a shame as he seems a genuine chap and that speech he gave last season gave us hope that he really could turn the club around, but as ever results mean everything.

He would make a great chairman. Perhaps thats the answer - him and Fenty to swap jobs.

The reality?

The reality is that in desperation the club appointed someone with no management experience apart from in Sweden where his win rate was 22%. But he was “highly regarded” as a coach by such luminaries as Sean Dyche. Oh, and he had won the Central League Cup with Burnley Under-23s. By the way, Morecambe has won that trophy as well. Nevertheless we avoided relegation and he got praise for turning things around. If you look back at those games we played crap and were saved only by other sides being crappier plus some nerveless penalties. He delivered? Possibly, but I have a feeling any reasonable new face would have done as much - if one could have been found.

However Jolley talks well, made a big social impression visiting the sick and the birthdays, moving to the area, 2 year contracts for players. His interviews seemed different at first to the Slade monotony. He had a budget and brought in what we all felt were reasonable if not brilliant signings. We were sucked it.  The reality was that we could not get anyone else. Nobody else wanted the job. We know why that is but we made a virtue out of a vice by talking up the Jolley Revolution on the Fishy almost as much as did the man himself. Some people are still doing that. But then ......

The reality is the bloke cannot manage and neither can his assistant. Let’s not beat about the bush here. Jolley failed abjectly in Sweden and he is doing the same here. Look at his CV, he is only 41 but he has never stayed in a job very long, football or non-football. Why?

He did not sign the most important player a side needs - a striker who will pop in a goal when you are playing badly. Don’t say he tried - either he didn’t try hard enough or he didn’t think it mattered. Even if players turned him down he still mismanaged his budget by signing non-descripts who occasionally get a wonder goal.Those interviews where he talked about Cook being a striker were eyewash. If he believed it he was a fool, if he didn’t then we are the fools. Now we find he cannot handle his senior players and cannot get the side to do what he wants even though most were his signings.

Jolley may  be a very nice chap, I’ve nothing against him personally as I don’t know him. I have seen and met a good few managers and coaches at BP over the years though, and what he is doing is not impressive. I don’t think he is a bad coach, he isn’t thick, he’s got the badges, he talks very well but he simply does not know how to manage a squad of men and organise a side to win games. And as a coach is he better than Neil Woods? Smarter suit maybe, but ability? I very much doubt it.

He got the job because we were desperate. In a decent shortlist with one or two experienced managers he would never have been appointed. But we fell for  “Hey look at us, we are the future, we have a manager with real credentials and contacts to rejuvenate the whole club, let us embrace the glorious revolution, get the 12th man down to BP and cheer on the lads.”

So here we are with the revolution in tatters within a couple of months and a manager who appears clueless on how to fix his dream. Please do not tell me he needs more time. It is his own daft fault we cannot sign the player the team definitely needs until January so brace yourselves for a rough ride until then at least even if he is sacked. Unless there is a remarkable turnaround there will be very, very few goals. The odd goalless draw or 1-0 win is the best we can expect. Maybe a new manager could do the walk with this squad but anyone with the strength and experience to do that will run foul of the immovable objects in the Boardroom when they ask for money. That is assuming anyone wants the job. Otherwise we are looking at the talk and the Emperor’s new clothes for a bit longer.

Nothing we can do except put up with what JF decides or vote with feet and leave him to it.

That’s the reality. Pass that bottle over please, sorrows to drown.

Quoted from VinnyGTFC

Last season when looking for a manager Micheal Jolleys name came up. He  was a risky yet interesting shot. Most fans liked the sound of him.
John Fenty took a punt on him. The man delivered and to the delight of most fans Jolley remained manager.
Now there are big shouts to replace this man without giving him the chance to sort the mess out and calls for Fenty to go despite doing what 80% of supporters would have done.
Don't get it!!!

In the main, his players and his tactics so his mess, I am sure most would like him to turn it around but nearly a quarter of the season has gone so can he do it?

Quoted from Perkins

Spot on, coaching qualification is based 90% on theoretical situations within a classroom environment and not on the training ground. Management is a totally different animal which means inspiring confidence and getting the best out of players by means of man management, both of which re not happening at the moment.
I like Jolley as a person and i think he's an honest guy, but at the moment he's lacking the necessary skills required for a manager.

I can see how you differentiate between a manager and a coach but in most countries in European Football ( and even amongst the media in this country ) those two expressions are synonymous with each other. People who run football teams around the world are described as " coach " or " head coach ".

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

The reality?

moving to the area,

Has he though?

Quoted from rancido

I can see how you differentiate between a manager and a coach but in most countries in European Football ( and even amongst the media in this country ) those two expressions are synonymous with each other. People who run football teams around the world are described as " coach " or " head coach ".

Yes, i understand what you are saying, and we are probably one of a few countries that still refer to a "coach" as a Manager, but that is gradually changing due to the influx of foreign managers into our game,  but my point is that you can have all the "coaching" qualifications in the world, but if you don't posses the abilities to "man-manage" and inspire your players and install confidence in them you get what we've got, an uninspiring team with a total lack of confidence.

Top post TheRonRaffertyFanClub     

Jolley performed miracles last season no doubt, so why is he struggling so badly this season, I can only think that those players last season were either better quality players or were stronger minded, to me it's about budget which proves why we couldn't bring in a quality striker.

The reality for me is I'd like Fenty to make a statement on how our budget compares to others in the league, I'm hearing a bottom quarter budget, if that is correct, we are were we are because of that but that won't happen because that'll mean Fenty and his yes men have to go.

Quoted from Marinerz93

Top post TheRonRaffertyFanClub     

Jolley performed miracles last season no doubt, so why is he struggling so badly this season, I can only think that those players last season were either better quality players or were stronger minded, to me it's about budget which proves why we couldn't bring in a quality striker.

The reality for me is I'd like Fenty to make a statement on how our budget compares to others in the league, I'm hearing a bottom quarter budget, if that is correct, we are were we are because of that but that won't happen because that'll mean Fenty and his yes men have to go.

If that's true then we are in deep excrement.

Quoted from VinnyGTFC

Last season when looking for a manager Micheal Jolleys name came up. He  was a risky yet interesting shot. Most fans liked the sound of him.
John Fenty took a punt on him. The man delivered and to the delight of most fans Jolley remained manager.
Now there are big shouts to replace this man without giving him the chance to sort the mess out and calls for Fenty to go despite doing what 80% of supporters would have done.
Don't get it!!!

After Phil Brown, John Askey and possibly one other turned him down.

Everyone is only as good as their last dozen results. Look at Claudio Ranieri, a god one season and then sacked halfway through the next one!

Quoted from GrimRob

Everyone is only as good as their last dozen results. Look at Claudio Ranieri, a god one season and then sacked halfway through the next one!

This is exactly why the board should set the tone of the club. Employees come and go, depending as you say on results. It is up to the board to provide the optimum conditions for the employees to thrive, but if they fail then to replace them with as little disruption as possible.

Our board to the exact opposite. Each appointment is made in the hope they can get them out of the mire. They pass on the responsibility of the clubs welfare to the manager and hope for the best.

Of course when the axe falls Fenty will say we backed the manager, he had everything he asked for. In his eyes that is true, but it is nowhere enough to compete in the modern game.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

The reality?

The reality is that in desperation the club appointed someone with no management experience apart from in Sweden where his win rate was 22%. But he was “highly regarded” as a coach by such luminaries as Sean Dyche. Oh, and he had won the Central League Cup with Burnley Under-23s. By the way, Morecambe has won that trophy as well. Nevertheless we avoided relegation and he got praise for turning things around. If you look back at those games we played crap and were saved only by other sides being crappier plus some nerveless penalties. He delivered? Possibly, but I have a feeling any reasonable new face would have done as much - if one could have been found.

However Jolley talks well, made a big social impression visiting the sick and the birthdays, moving to the area, 2 year contracts for players. His interviews seemed different at first to the Slade monotony. He had a budget and brought in what we all felt were reasonable if not brilliant signings. We were sucked it.  The reality was that we could not get anyone else. Nobody else wanted the job. We know why that is but we made a virtue out of a vice by talking up the Jolley Revolution on the Fishy almost as much as did the man himself. Some people are still doing that. But then ......

The reality is the bloke cannot manage and neither can his assistant. Let’s not beat about the bush here. Jolley failed abjectly in Sweden and he is doing the same here. Look at his CV, he is only 41 but he has never stayed in a job very long, football or non-football. Why?

He did not sign the most important player a side needs - a striker who will pop in a goal when you are playing badly. Don’t say he tried - either he didn’t try hard enough or he didn’t think it mattered. Even if players turned him down he still mismanaged his budget by signing non-descripts who occasionally get a wonder goal.Those interviews where he talked about Cook being a striker were eyewash. If he believed it he was a fool, if he didn’t then we are the fools. Now we find he cannot handle his senior players and cannot get the side to do what he wants even though most were his signings.

Jolley may  be a very nice chap, I’ve nothing against him personally as I don’t know him. I have seen and met a good few managers and coaches at BP over the years though, and what he is doing is not impressive. I don’t think he is a bad coach, he isn’t thick, he’s got the badges, he talks very well but he simply does not know how to manage a squad of men and organise a side to win games. And as a coach is he better than Neil Woods? Smarter suit maybe, but ability? I very much doubt it.

He got the job because we were desperate. In a decent shortlist with one or two experienced managers he would never have been appointed. But we fell for  “Hey look at us, we are the future, we have a manager with real credentials and contacts to rejuvenate the whole club, let us embrace the glorious revolution, get the 12th man down to BP and cheer on the lads.”

So here we are with the revolution in tatters within a couple of months and a manager who appears clueless on how to fix his dream. Please do not tell me he needs more time. It is his own daft fault we cannot sign the player the team definitely needs until January so brace yourselves for a rough ride until then at least even if he is sacked. Unless there is a remarkable turnaround there will be very, very few goals. The odd goalless draw or 1-0 win is the best we can expect. Maybe a new manager could do the walk with this squad but anyone with the strength and experience to do that will run foul of the immovable objects in the Boardroom when they ask for money. That is assuming anyone wants the job. Otherwise we are looking at the talk and the Emperor’s new clothes for a bit longer.

Nothing we can do except put up with what JF decides or vote with feet and leave him to it.

That’s the reality. Pass that bottle over please, sorrows to drown.

Nail hit squarely on the head...
Jolley=failed in Sweden...
Limbrick=failed at woking...
Afraid ladies n gents, majority of us,believed MJ would be the new messiah to football management and his career would start here but in reality he's clueless at management although I agree he could have the attributes to be a decent coach....
Maybe he should hand in his resignation, admit defeat and walk away before it gets really toxic toward him..

Quoted from Perkins

Spot on, coaching qualification is based 90% on theoretical situations within a classroom environment and not on the training ground. Management is a totally different animal which means inspiring confidence and getting the best out of players by means of man management, both of which re not happening at the moment.
I like Jolley as a person and i think he's an honest guy, but at the moment he's lacking the necessary skills required for a manager.

So you think all the years he’s spent going through the levels of coaching 90% of his time has been in the classroom? That makes about 13 years sat on his bottom. So all those other clubs have paid him for all that time NOT coaching.

The reality is that the issues are mounting up,

- 91st in the EFL
- Six defeats in a row and one goal scored
- Possibly the worst defence ever? Certainly since 77/78 when I started going.
- A side that looks like they are waiting for defeat to happen - zero confidence!
- Pros that look like they can't or won't stand up and be counted.  
- Senior pros who are offering very little.
- No creativity, poor passing and we give the ball away cheaply/
- Talent left on the bench whilst others looked guaranteed a start
- A different selection and shape each week and no width, we need a system for the players not players for a system.
- Two fit CB's one who went down with Chesterfield last season the other should have been put down and not re-signed.
- Questionable levels of fitness and apparently the team went away in the week rather than drilling the defence on the training ground
- Questionable sub decisions and too many "square pegs" taking the field.  
- Crowds shrinking by the week
- A board who come out with cheap statements about a move one week and then talk to us about wanting to sell the next???
- Nobody decent wants to sign for us, is it money, location, the manager, the threat of relegation or just that the club is a dysfunctional shambles?
- A match day experience that is embarrassing.


The list goes on and on.......

You can analyse it as much as you want but even at the end of September we are in real danger of dropping back to the abyss, in fact when you look at the team and whole club and the lack of pride and spreading apathy I'd say we are favourites.  

Short term - MJ needs to go, the self proclaimed "custodians" of the club need to get their hands in their pockets (they are directors after all) and pay for a good replacement who will stabilise us on the pitch and keep us up.  

Mid Term - If we operate at this "small time" level sooner or later the trap door will get us, it's inevitable. The glass half empty attitude of this board needs to change.

Long Term - Who knows? With the current people in charge I think we'll keep going around in circles at best but at worst we may disappear like the Stockport and York.  

The reality? It's fuked and in reality it feels like it's going to get a lot worse before it gets any better.

UTM!

Quoted from HertsGTFC

The reality is that the issues are mounting up,

- 91st in the EFL
- Six defeats in a row and one goal scored
- Possibly the worst defence ever? Certainly since 77/78 when I started going.
- A side that looks like they are waiting for defeat to happen - zero confidence!
- Pros that look like they can't or won't stand up and be counted.  
- Senior pros who are offering very little.
- No creativity, poor passing and we give the ball away cheaply/
- Talent left on the bench whilst others looked guaranteed a start
- A different selection and shape each week and no width, we need a system for the players not players for a system.
- Two fit CB's one who went down with Chesterfield last season the other should have been put down and not re-signed.
- Questionable levels of fitness and apparently the team went away in the week rather than drilling the defence on the training ground
- Questionable sub decisions and too many "square pegs" taking the field.  
- Crowds shrinking by the week
- A board who come out with cheap statements about a move one week and then talk to us about wanting to sell the next???
- Nobody decent wants to sign for us, is it money, location, the manager, the threat of relegation or just that the club is a dysfunctional shambles?
- A match day experience that is embarrassing.


The list goes on and on.......

You can analyse it as much as you want but even at the end of September we are in real danger of dropping back to the abyss, in fact when you look at the team and whole club and the lack of pride and spreading apathy I'd say we are favourites.  

Short term - MJ needs to go, the self proclaimed "custodians" of the club need to get their hands in their pockets (they are directors after all) and pay for a good replacement who will stabilise us on the pitch and keep us up.  

Mid Term - If we operate at this "small time" level sooner or later the trap door will get us, it's inevitable. The glass half empty attitude of this board needs to change.

Long Term - Who knows? With the current people in charge I think we'll keep going around in circles at best but at worst we may disappear like the Stockport and York.  

The reality? It's fuked and in reality it feels like it's going to get a lot worse before it gets any better.

UTM!

I was hoping for a Swansea or Bournemouth but I am starting to believe it will be York or Stockport. Very sad but I don't think we would recover any time soon once the trapdoor opens.

Absolutely nailed it with  your post Herts, its  an appalling state of affairs that just seems to go on year after year.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

So you think all the years he’s spent going through the levels of coaching 90% of his time has been in the classroom? That makes about 13 years sat on his bottom. So all those other clubs have paid him for all that time NOT coaching.

There has to be a difference in coaching teams where only the players parents turn up and the goal must be to produce quality players and not necessarily actually win something rather than managing a team where several thousand fans are expecting their team to at least compete or hopefully win.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

The reality?

The reality is that in desperation the club appointed someone with no management experience apart from in Sweden where his win rate was 22%. But he was “highly regarded” as a coach by such luminaries as Sean Dyche. Oh, and he had won the Central League Cup with Burnley Under-23s. By the way, Morecambe has won that trophy as well. Nevertheless we avoided relegation and he got praise for turning things around. If you look back at those games we played crap and were saved only by other sides being crappier plus some nerveless penalties. He delivered? Possibly, but I have a feeling any reasonable new face would have done as much - if one could have been found.

However Jolley talks well, made a big social impression visiting the sick and the birthdays, moving to the area, 2 year contracts for players. His interviews seemed different at first to the Slade monotony. He had a budget and brought in what we all felt were reasonable if not brilliant signings. We were sucked it.  The reality was that we could not get anyone else. Nobody else wanted the job. We know why that is but we made a virtue out of a vice by talking up the Jolley Revolution on the Fishy almost as much as did the man himself. Some people are still doing that. But then ......

The reality is the bloke cannot manage and neither can his assistant. Let’s not beat about the bush here. Jolley failed abjectly in Sweden and he is doing the same here. Look at his CV, he is only 41 but he has never stayed in a job very long, football or non-football. Why?

He did not sign the most important player a side needs - a striker who will pop in a goal when you are playing badly. Don’t say he tried - either he didn’t try hard enough or he didn’t think it mattered. Even if players turned him down he still mismanaged his budget by signing non-descripts who occasionally get a wonder goal.Those interviews where he talked about Cook being a striker were eyewash. If he believed it he was a fool, if he didn’t then we are the fools. Now we find he cannot handle his senior players and cannot get the side to do what he wants even though most were his signings.

Jolley may  be a very nice chap, I’ve nothing against him personally as I don’t know him. I have seen and met a good few managers and coaches at BP over the years though, and what he is doing is not impressive. I don’t think he is a bad coach, he isn’t thick, he’s got the badges, he talks very well but he simply does not know how to manage a squad of men and organise a side to win games. And as a coach is he better than Neil Woods? Smarter suit maybe, but ability? I very much doubt it.

He got the job because we were desperate. In a decent shortlist with one or two experienced managers he would never have been appointed. But we fell for  “Hey look at us, we are the future, we have a manager with real credentials and contacts to rejuvenate the whole club, let us embrace the glorious revolution, get the 12th man down to BP and cheer on the lads.”

So here we are with the revolution in tatters within a couple of months and a manager who appears clueless on how to fix his dream. Please do not tell me he needs more time. It is his own daft fault we cannot sign the player the team definitely needs until January so brace yourselves for a rough ride until then at least even if he is sacked. Unless there is a remarkable turnaround there will be very, very few goals. The odd goalless draw or 1-0 win is the best we can expect. Maybe a new manager could do the walk with this squad but anyone with the strength and experience to do that will run foul of the immovable objects in the Boardroom when they ask for money. That is assuming anyone wants the job. Otherwise we are looking at the talk and the Emperor’s new clothes for a bit longer.

Nothing we can do except put up with what JF decides or vote with feet and leave him to it.

That’s the reality. Pass that bottle over please, sorrows to drown.

I really fear that this is all correct. I hope it isn't. I dont think any of us want to face this truth

Quoted from chaos33

I really fear that this is all correct. I hope it isn't. I dont think any of us want to face this truth

I’ll face the truth as you’ll do as well. Many others on this board and at BP on Saturday will join us.

The powers that be won’t though and there sits the problem!

Quoted from arryarryarry

There has to be a difference in coaching teams where only the players parents turn up and the goal must be to produce quality players and not necessarily actually win something rather than managing a team where several thousand fans are expecting their team to at least compete or hopefully win.

Not really being in a classroom though is it? And I'm sure there were more than just mums and dads at Burnley Under 23 games and in the Swedish top division.

Quoted from Perkins

Spot on, coaching qualification is based 90% on theoretical situations within a classroom environment and not on the training ground. Management is a totally different animal which means inspiring confidence and getting the best out of players by means of man management, both of which re not happening at the moment.
I like Jolley as a person and i think he's an honest guy, but at the moment he's lacking the necessary skills required for a manager.

I would suggest you don’t have any recent coaching qualifications

People post that he was 5th or 6th choice of the board, yet Gary Holt said GTFC wanted to open contract negotiations with him and wanted to work with him, then changed their minds whilst Jolley himself said he didn’t apply but was approached by the club to come to interview.
Clearly the club did some research, to find out about Jolley as most of us would have never had heard of him yet it seems for the 2nd time in three appointments the board have fell for swagger and talk over  managerial nous.
Says it all really and a board with no real business and people acumen ( a solicitor, an accountant, a retired fish merchant, and a horse trainer)  will produce this type of decision over and over again. Like the team, the board have no balance

Quoted from VinnyGTFC

Last season when looking for a manager Micheal Jolleys name came up. He  was a risky yet interesting shot. Most fans liked the sound of him.
John Fenty took a punt on him. The man delivered and to the delight of most fans Jolley remained manager.
Now there are big shouts to replace this man without giving him the chance to sort the mess out and calls for Fenty to go despite doing what 80% of supporters would have done.
Don't get it!!!

Regardless im sorry you cant lose 7 games in a row when scoring just one goal without any manager being under threat from the sack at any level any club.

So as much as people like him and want him to succeed its results here and now what matter .

The reality?

We are still as crap as ever, even more so. We are averaging a half point a game and can't score or defend. We are heading for non league again, and possibly doing a Stockport.

Operation relegation.

The reality is, in my opinion, that Jolley has made huge errors over the summer but has not had anyone to use as a sounding board or someone to give him that nod of experience that would perhaps give him the courage in his convictions.

His backroom staff is full of people with similar or less experience than himself.  That's a one-way trip to disaster I'm afraid.  That set-up needs someone who has got the t-shirt and can offer support and guidance.  

My biggest frustration with Jolley is that he chops and changes all the time.  Some will say that's because he doesn't know what his best team is but I also wonder if it's that lack of experience to stick by his decisions, like with the way he quickly ditched the 3-5-2 system.  I think he would benefit from that older voice, someone who has previously made those mistakes, just to give him a gentle steer.

Equally so this apparent issue with the senior professionals, does Jolley have enough belief in his convictions to stand up to them?  Would he benefit from someone who's had to do it before and knows how to approach it.

Let's face it, if Jolley wasn't wet behind the ears he wouldn't be anywhere near this club.  I thought the whole idea behind bringing him in was to develop him as he develops us. rather than going for someone off the merry-go-round who will just bring the same old ideas in.  We can't expect Jolley (or indeed his staff) to develop to what we expect without someone there to give him that guidance and support.  It just doesn't happen that way.  Not in football, not in any other sport or indeed any other walk of life.  

Unfortunately the guy is drowning.  His chopping and changing of the side smack of someone who's flapping away in the hope of stumbling upon the winning success rather than having enough faith and confidence in sticking with a system for long enough to see it bed in.  He needs help.  That help and advice won't come from Anthony Limbrick, it won't come from the fitness coach and it certainly won't come from John Fenty.

I appreciate that appointing someone experienced now would potentially send that message of undermining Jolley but sadly that's something the club (and Jolley) will have to get over.  But the last thing the club should do now is ditch this whole project and go down this route again of bringing someone else in, bringing more players in, paying off players the new guy doesn't want...and repeat.

Quoted from diehardmariner

My biggest frustration with Jolley is that he chops and changes all the time.  Some will say that's because he doesn't know what his best team is but I also wonder if it's that lack of experience to stick by his decisions, like with the way he quickly ditched the 3-5-2 system. .

To me he seems to sway with the wind. He is what we used to call a Subbuteo manager, only good at shuffling players round on a board. His huge error, apart from not signing a striker, was to sign players to fit his 3-5-2 preference, use it and then ditch it. The players have been left in no-man’s land. I would have more time for him if he had worked the players to a standstill on that system even if it worked out to be more like 5-3-2 with the lack of pace and became a Hurst type defensive game. At least he would now have had a few points to play with and the players would only have to be drilled in one system. That would have shown strength of character instead of him looking like an overgrown schoolboy who doesn’t know what to do next.

That is the difference between a manager and a coach.

Possibly a “sounding board” might have helped, but you would think these contacts he is supposed to have high up in the game like Dyche would have offered that sort of advice straightaway. Either that notion of him having such contacts was another bluff or else he has ignored them.

One thing Fenty can do to help him if any senior players come to him to tell tales is to send them away with a flea in their ear and tell them to do as they are told or go.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

To me he seems to sway with the wind. He is what we used to call a Subbuteo manager, only good at shuffling players round on a board. His huge error, apart from not signing a striker, was to sign players to fit his 3-5-2 preference, use it and then ditch it. The players have been left in no-man’s land. I would have more time for him if he had worked the players to a standstill on that system even if it worked out to be more like 5-3-2 with the lack of pace and became a Hurst type defensive game. At least he would now have had a few points to play with and the players would only have to be drilled in one system. That would have shown strength of character instead of him looking like an overgrown schoolboy who doesn’t know what to do next.

That is the difference between a manager and a coach.

Possibly a “sounding board” might have helped, but you would think these contacts he is supposed to have high up in the game like Dyche would have offered that sort of advice straightaway. Either that notion of him having such contacts was another bluff or else he has ignored them.

One thing Fenty can do to help him if any senior players come to him to tell tales is to send them away with a flea in their ear and tell them to do as they are told or go.

Jolley could learn from Hurst in that though at numerous times it wasn’t pretty Hurst found a way of playing that suited the players abilities Jolley however seems to be trying to get players to play to a system rather then their strengths. A system that changes weekly at the moment.

Additionally your right about players going to the non chairman on the basis of what we’ve seen since the MKD game they are collectively a massive part of this problem

Let's not cloud facts though with poor judgement.

Jolley was a fairly popular choice as manager last season. When he kept us up - in some style - he could walk on water.

He has strengthened the squad - again, bar the proverbial 20 goals per season mythical man - and the signings went down reasonably well with the fans.

Awful start at home to the season, followed by a win away home, a game that we somehow didn't win against the best team in the league by a country mile, and an away draw at MK Dons as well. There was genuine hope back then, and a pedestal to build on.

We now have six consecutive defeats behind us, an inability to score goals, and the fans reaction seems to be that we are pretty clueless, and don't know where the next wins coming from? These are Jolley's players, and all on longer contracts that had been previously dished out - so there should have been genuine stability. The problem is everything seems to have imploded.

Has Jolley lost the changing room with team selection / tactics? He seems a decent bloke, but he worked in high level finance, so there has to be a ruthless side to him somewhere. If he hasn't lost the changing room, then it's the tactics - there's no other explanation other than the players simply aren't up for it. Yet we see players who are out on loan performing well. We see players who have left the club scoring - even Jamille Matt got a couple of Newport on Saturday after coming on as a substitute. Yussuf bagged the winner for Solihull Moors who are having an excellent season. The list goes on. Something seems to stop players performing when they pull on the black and white.

John Fenty doesn't pick the team, although the board says who we can and can not afford to be in the squad. Is there an air of staleness about the whole thing surrounding the club that impacts directly on players once they cross the portal at BP? It might be part of the equation, but it's not wholly the answer.

It's a results driven business and I think MJ is only too well aware that he's perhaps already on borrowed time. For myself, I hope he is given the time, but not sure just how much, before change would have to come if results don't pick up? Who then would come somewhere like BP to manage, bar all the managerial stiffs who've been sacked more times than they care to remember. Talk will be rife amongst their ranks of the clubs where they can get a good deal, and board backing, and where not to go. I doubt we're among the former.

Am at Carlisle on Tuesday. Was there last season and we were truly awful, so anything over and above that is a bonus for me. UTM, and here's hoping for a real change in fortune for the club.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

His huge error, apart from not signing a striker, was to sign players to fit his 3-5-2 preference, use it and then ditch it.

I'd say the issue was that he didn't sign the players to fit his 3-5-2 preference.

If you're going to play 5 in the middle, you've got to have players with the ability to add some width and pace in the wing-back roles. RHJ is possibly capable of this (though I'm not fully convinced by his defensive capabilities as yet), but Dixon and Fox aren't really players in that vein and we initially played with Clifton, a central defender, in a terribly unfamiliar role. No 'wingers' other than Woolford and the untested Wright at the start of the season when we were trying 3-5-2, though Pringle now adds another option. Little pace in the team and in central midfield especially. Welsh needs two quick players around him - Hessenthaler is fine for that role, but I always think Rose seems a bit cumbersome getting around the pitch and Woolford isn't quick enough around the pitch for a central midfielder.

As I've said in the past, I think the absence of Cardwell due to injury has left us without an 'out' up front because nobody else is capable of playing through the middle, but in general, I think the squad is too thin and lacking back-up in too many areas. I reckon he was planning to fill out the squad by signing a couple of players from Sweden after Christmas which could be the gamble which will cost him his job. Though hopefully not our League status.

Quoted from Cloudy

People post that he was 5th or 6th choice of the board, yet Gary Holt said GTFC wanted to open contract negotiations with him and wanted to work with him, then changed their minds whilst Jolley himself said he didn’t apply but was approached by the club to come to interview.
Clearly the club did some research, to find out about Jolley as most of us would have never had heard of him yet it seems for the 2nd time in three appointments the board have fell for swagger and talk over  managerial nous.
Says it all really and a board with no real business and people acumen ( a solicitor, an accountant, a retired fish merchant, and a horse trainer)  will produce this type of decision over and over again. Like the team, the board have no balance

Not for the first time it appears that when appointing Slade’s replacement the Gang of Four where at cross purposes. Reminds me of the bull sh1t story around the non appointment of Curtis Woodhouse and the senior  mystery source who told Matt Dean that it was happening, half @rsed as ever.

I get what you mean about the Directors business backgrounds and would add that they’ve all pretty much operated in the same isolated small Town for decades which evidently means that fresh ideas and thinking big is alien to them.

Quoted from Cloudy

People post that he was 5th or 6th choice of the board, yet Gary Holt said GTFC wanted to open contract negotiations with him and wanted to work with him, then changed their minds whilst Jolley himself said he didn’t apply but was approached by the club to come to interview.
Clearly the club did some research, to find out about Jolley as most of us would have never had heard of him yet it seems for the 2nd time in three appointments the board have fell for swagger and talk over  managerial nous.
Says it all really and a board with no real business and people acumen ( a solicitor, an accountant, a retired fish merchant, and a horse trainer)  will produce this type of decision over and over again. Like the team, the board have no balance

You pay for quality, are the club offering competitive wages for a good manager, why haven't we approached a smaller club who are doing far better than us for their manager, someone who is respected, and gets results, oh hang on I think I highlighted the problem in the opening sentence.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Jolley could learn from Hurst in that though at numerous times it wasn’t pretty Hurst found a way of playing that suited the players abilities Jolley however seems to be trying to get players to play to a system rather then their strengths. A system that changes weekly at the moment.

Additionally your right about players going to the non chairman on the basis of what we’ve seen since the MKD game they are collectively a massive part of this problem

Hurst is a lowest common denominator manager. You start the game with one point and if it ends 0-0 then that is a result. A goal is a bonus. Interestingly reporters in the local press at Ipswich have already picked this up, not from us but from his time at Shrewsbury. I think he had 16 1-0 wins last season, mainly in the earlier games and then settled for draws and the play-offs in the final 10 games or so. Disgruntled would be a good word for the average Ipswich fan with their new manager.

Maybe Jolley would have taken some stick from the fans if his 3-5-3 had gone that way but he could have cupped his ear and pointed to points in the bag.

As it is, he is stuck. He can’t manage the senior players and despite a plethora of badges between them,  Jolley and his staff  do not coach the side well enough either. Just looking back for example on the two goals conceded on Saturday, it is clear that the defence has no idea whether to play a high line or drop off. When someone runs at them they don’t know whether to sh!t, shave or shower. Collins goes forward, then back, then forwards and gets passed. There is no discipline in the team, the midfielders either are not fit enough or are not sure whether to attack the ball or drop off. The forwards never know where the ball will land when it comes out of orbit so they don’t know whether to run the channels or stay put.

Really it is as grim as it gets. Yet I don’t believe the players are hopeless, they just need a firm sense of purpose instead of all this jawing. John Tondeur asks Jolley what he has done to halt the slide. Worked on some drills and had one to one talks was the reply. One to one talks! Unbelievable for a manager to say it. It should be “I talked and he listened, and then he either does it or he’s out of the side.”

The words p!ss up and brewery spring to mind.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Maybe Jolley would have taken some stick from the fans if his 3-5-3 had gone that way but he could have cupped his ear and pointed to points in the bag.

You might have hit on the solution there!

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Hurst is a lowest common denominator manager. You start the game with one point and if it ends 0-0 then that is a result. A goal is a bonus. Interestingly reporters in the local press at Ipswich have already picked this up, not from us but from his time at Shrewsbury. I think he had 16 1-0 wins last season, mainly in the earlier games and then settled for draws and the play-offs in the final 10 games or so. Disgruntled would be a good word for the average Ipswich fan with their new manager.

Maybe Jolley would have taken some stick from the fans if his 3-5-3 had gone that way but he could have cupped his ear and pointed to points in the bag.

As it is, he is stuck. He can’t manage the senior players and despite a plethora of badges between them,  Jolley and his staff  do not coach the side well enough either. Just looking back for example on the two goals conceded on Saturday, it is clear that the defence has no idea whether to play a high line or drop off. When someone runs at them they don’t know whether to sh!t, shave or shower. Collins goes forward, then back, then forwards and gets passed. There is no discipline in the team, the midfielders either are not fit enough or are not sure whether to attack the ball or drop off. The forwards never know where the ball will land when it comes out of orbit so they don’t know whether to run the channels or stay put.

Really it is as grim as it gets. Yet I don’t believe the players are hopeless, they just need a firm sense of purpose instead of all this jawing. John Tondeur asks Jolley what he has done to halt the slide. Worked on some drills and had one to one talks was the reply. One to one talks! Unbelievable for a manager to say it. It should be “I talked and he listened, and then he either does it or he’s out of the side.”

The words p!ss up and brewery spring to mind.

That is a convincing analysis.

I cannot quite believe how everything he said he wanted has not happened at all.

He mentioned pace, high tempo, a pressing game and attacking with purpose. He also mentioned fitness loads of times, and yet I have not seen a more unfit bunch since fitness training consisted of lifting a medicine ball.

I think I have said previously that Saturday was about the worst I have seen in a very long time, and when you consider just how low the bar has been set that takes some doing.

It is a complete shambles once again. I had pinned my hopes on Michael Jolley but it seems it is not to be. There are so many problems inherent with the club, I am doubtful any manager can put it right.

Quoted from Yoda

Yes MJ was a popular choice but it’s hasnt worked out unfortunately, can we risk another relegation to non league.

I'll accept that if you like, but why are we behaving like John Fenty has wronged us on this occasion. He has made mistakes sure but this was a popular appointment and should be treat as such. A good appointment that hasn't quite worked out, but kept us in the league last season. And we we're dead and buried.

Quoted from jonnyboy82

Regardless im sorry you cant lose 7 games in a row when scoring just one goal without any manager being under threat from the sack at any level any club.

So as much as people like him and want him to succeed its results here and now what matter .

Agree. Not what I'm saying

Quoted from VinnyGTFC

I'll accept that if you like, but why are we behaving like John Fenty has wronged us on this occasion. He has made mistakes sure but this was a popular appointment and should be treat as such. A good appointment that hasn't quite worked out, but kept us in the league last season. And we we're dead and buried.

But what sort of a player budget did Mr Fenty give MJ this summer compared to our rivals because if it was poor as I suspect then Mr Fenty has to take some of the blame, what happened to that hairs on the back of the neck striker that we clearly needed.

Quoted from promotion plaice

But what sort of a player budget did Mr Fenty give MJ this summer compared to our rivals because if it was poor as I suspect then Mr Fenty has to take some of the blame, what happened to that hairs on the back of the neck striker that we clearly needed.

But Jolley must surely have known that (as soon as he got over the shock of actually getting the job). He couldn't possibly have expected any (non) Chairman to hand him a huge budget when his previous experience was confined to running a Subbuteo team FFS

Fenty's daft but not that daft

Also of course we don't know if failing to secure a Premiership standard 40 goal a season striker was to do solely with money anyway. I suspect most if not all of those he wanted took one look at BP, Grimsby, Fenty, Jolley et al and said an emphatic no thanks

Quoted from Ipswin

But Jolley must surely have known that (as soon as he got over the shock of actually getting the job). He couldn't possibly have expected any (non) Chairman to hand him a huge budget when his previous experience was confined to running a Subbuteo team FFS

Fenty's daft but not that daft

Also of course we don't know if failing to secure a Premiership standard 40 goal a season striker was to do solely with money anyway. I suspect most if not all of those he wanted too one look at BP, Grimsby, Fenty, Jolley at al and said an emphatic no thanks

JF probably told them to read The Fishy and check out the miserable old twa@ts and see if you fancy trying to please them.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

The reality is that the issues are mounting up,

- 91st in the EFL
- Six defeats in a row and one goal scored
- Possibly the worst defence ever? Certainly since 77/78 when I started going.
- A side that looks like they are waiting for defeat to happen - zero confidence!
- Pros that look like they can't or won't stand up and be counted.  
- Senior pros who are offering very little.
- No creativity, poor passing and we give the ball away cheaply/
- Talent left on the bench whilst others looked guaranteed a start
- A different selection and shape each week and no width, we need a system for the players not players for a system.
- Two fit CB's one who went down with Chesterfield last season the other should have been put down and not re-signed.
- Questionable levels of fitness and apparently the team went away in the week rather than drilling the defence on the training ground
- Questionable sub decisions and too many "square pegs" taking the field.  
- Crowds shrinking by the week
- A board who come out with cheap statements about a move one week and then talk to us about wanting to sell the next???
- Nobody decent wants to sign for us, is it money, location, the manager, the threat of relegation or just that the club is a dysfunctional shambles?
- A match day experience that is embarrassing.


The list goes on and on.......

You can analyse it as much as you want but even at the end of September we are in real danger of dropping back to the abyss, in fact when you look at the team and whole club and the lack of pride and spreading apathy I'd say we are favourites.  

Short term - MJ needs to go, the self proclaimed "custodians" of the club need to get their hands in their pockets (they are directors after all) and pay for a good replacement who will stabilise us on the pitch and keep us up.  

Mid Term - If we operate at this "small time" level sooner or later the trap door will get us, it's inevitable. The glass half empty attitude of this board needs to change.

Long Term - Who knows? With the current people in charge I think we'll keep going around in circles at best but at worst we may disappear like the Stockport and York.  

The reality? It's fuked and in reality it feels like it's going to get a lot worse before it gets any better.

UTM!

Hard to disagree with any of that good post

Quoted from VinnyGTFC

The fans pay the wages not Fenty. His ceiling on the budget just ensures he doesn't have to put any money in himself, if it is true that he hasn't actually put money into the club (apart from loans) for a long time.