The Arts vs Football

Now we all know about the £1.5 BILLION bailout that the Arts got from the Government.

Have you since heard about the Royal Albert Hall reopening, and allowing crowds of 3000 people to watch concerts?

The notice says proudly: 'Welcome to the Royal Albert Hall. We're back for Christmas.'

Indeed they are. Back with the Royal Choral Society on December 9, Guy Barker's Big Band on December 11, an Orchestral Adventure on December 13, Handel's Messiah on December 15, plus four days of carols and The Nutcracker post-Christmas.

'There will be a maximum of 3,000 audience members at any one performance,' the RAH explain, 'in addition to around 100 members of front of house, security and catering staff. Our usual capacity is 5,272, staff excluded.'

So that works out to be about 57% of capacity where seating is tightly packed in, and yet they won't let a 1000 people into an open air football ground that can accommodate many thousands more.

Something stinks about all this. Maybe Boris wants to go listen to Handel's Messiah.

It just shows you how the government see all football fans. They see us as uncouth morons that would not be able to control ourselves and stick to any guidelines. They also see the clubs as incapable of controlling even a small crowd. I bet all they see is a few pints, a pie & a fight, otherwise why not let us back into our grounds.

Or is there another reason?

If people didn’t cotton on to who this govt are working for when groups of 7 were banned, but hunting & grouse shooting meetings of 30 were allowed, then they might be beyond help.

I hope all the ten-bob millionaires in N.E.Lincs enjoy Handel’s Messiah at the Royal Albert Hall!

Oh - but doesn't one wash before Concerts so there are no germs on one . I have heard that scruffy football supporters actually go to the "game" in smelly "fishy" overalls. I know we are supposed to treat people from these places as "nearly" equals but wasn't there a rumour not so long ago about one of the "under privileged" wearing a striped shirt trying to get a ticket. A jolly good job we found out in time -I believe he was from Grimbsy or some backwater up there.

It’s a very good point you raise. It’s allowed to have over 50% of normal capacity in an enclosed space. Hell, even the Parkway cinema can have people in.
But no one can go to an outside event, like a football match. I think they worry about the travelling to and from the stadiums, I don’t know, but I think I’ve heard this somewhere.
In that case, shouldn’t the trams, buses etc. get there house in order?

But surely people travel from all over to go to those indoor events?

It’s a flipping farce, the government are incompetent, they’re plucking rules and guidance out of the air and it’s just becoming one big mess.

A fellow town fan posted something on Facebook this morning regarding a response from Martin Vickers after asking him to lobby to save the arts and hospitality industry...no guesses for what his response was.

I’m starting to think that the Conservative Party don’t really care about the working class.

Agreed aldi, but, and I’m only going on my failing memory, they only seemed to apply that logic to football.

Quoted from LH

I’m starting to think that the Conservative Party don’t really care about the working class.

But but but...they represent us, they stand for the same beliefs...imagine voting for them whilst living in Grimsby...

Trouble is, and we’ve all seen it, there’s a minority that get hammered. They’re the ones who are likely to spread it. The fact that the other 98% of us behave is irrelevant. One infected lad on a stag do was apparently solely responsible for the massive increase in cases in Bolton.

And there’s the smattering of heated arguments and handbags amongst our own fans whenever we’re doing badly...

Quoted from 140381

Trouble is, and we’ve all seen it, there’s a minority that get hammered. They’re the ones who are likely to spread it. The fact that the other 98% of us behave is irrelevant. One infected lad on a stag do was apparently solely responsible for the massive increase in cases in Bolton.

Apparently the 'massive rise' in cases in Newcastle was 400 odd people and two deaths. Nationwide 250 people have been admitted to hospital.
If the 1,500,000 NHS staff can't cope with 250 admissions it might well be time to give up completely.

Quoted from Cambridgefish

Apparently the 'massive rise' in cases in Newcastle was 400 odd people and two deaths.

There were 770 positive cases at Northumbria University alone...

Quoted from Cambridgefish

Apparently the 'massive rise' in cases in Newcastle was 400 odd people and two deaths. Nationwide 250 people have been admitted to hospital.
If the 1,500,000 NHS staff can't cope with 250 admissions it might well be time to give up completely.

As of today there are 240 in hospital in Wales alone. Up 60% from last week. Same rules apply as April. I think it’ll look much bleaker in 2 weeks’ time.

Anyway, I really don’t want to get into a Covid argument. Merely trying to put across an alternative point.

Nevertheless, while we’re here - intercourse the Albert Hall.

I guess the reason for opening the Albert hall is to protect that Rogue testicle that’s knocking about in there...

intercourse the Arts.

Am I the only person that thinks this COVID farce is going to be over straight after the presidential election?

Quoted from Mariner Ronnie

Am I the only person that thinks this COVID farce is going to be over straight after the presidential election?

I reckon them people who think that Donald Trump is fighting a secret war against a satanist pedophile ring made up of democrats and celebrities also might think what you're thinking.

I hate to urine on a bonfire, but there’s some proper fake news in here.

3000 people won’t be going to watch any RAH performance. It’s less than 1000 per event. Less than a third of capacity.

The RAH doesn’t qualify for the £1.5bn cultural arts money. A great many venues don’t. Since announcing it in June not a single venue has seen a penny of this money yet.

The current rules for pubs exist for venues - 2m, social distancing etc. Venues have been able to open for about 6 weeks now with huge restrictions placed on them which makes them completely unviable hence why most haven’t opened.

The RAH is only opening to save staff from redundancy and even then they are only getting 55% meaning a pay cut.

The government wants to divide us and cause issues. Football is separate. I wholeheartedly agree that they should allow crowds on to games and there’s no real justification for not doing so other than political dogma.

HOW MANY PEOPLE WILL BE IN THE HALL AT ONE TIME?
There will be a maximum of 3000 audience members at any one performance, which is intimate for us (our usual capacity is 5,272, staff excluded!). In addition to this, around 100 members of Front of House, Security and Catering staff will be on hand to make your visit as smooth and safe as possible.

Don’t know, but this is taken from their website?

Quoted from LH

I’m starting to think that the Conservative Party don’t really care about the working class.

I’m starting to think that this site has become a mouthpiece for the left wingers that turn every thread into a political point scoring exercise !!  NON FOOTY COMMENT.

Still,  I’m sure the MODs will sort it.

Oh,  

I guess Rob needs the clicks for revenue. So will quite happily let this continue unabated !!!

Quoted from Civvy at last

I’m starting to think that this site has become a mouthpiece for the left wingers that turn every thread into a political point scoring exercise !!  NON FOOTY COMMENT.

Still,  I’m sure the MODs will sort it.

Oh,  

I guess Rob needs the clicks for revenue. So will quite happily let this continue unabated !!!

I know, it's bloody disgusting that people want to share their opinions on an Internet forum and some of them have the audacity to have a different viewpoint to yours. The b*stards.....

I was really struck by the title of this thread. It doesn't have to be arts v football, it's possible to like both. I have (genuinely) been to the Albert Hall to see Messiah and it was amazing. I have also been to Stevenage to watch Town. And it wasn't.

We need consistency in all areas or at least a clear explanation of why rules are different for different venues and events. I agree that it makes no sense to allow events in the Albert Hall but not football matches but we should push for a clear explanation not slag off southerners (or exiled northerners) because they want to go to the Albert Hall.

Up The Mariners and Go On GF Handel.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

I know, it's bloody disgusting that people want to share their opinions on an Internet forum and some of them have the audacity to have a different viewpoint to yours. The b*stards.....

Their opinions are as legitimate as anybody else’s.
But is a fourth division FOOTBALL  forum the place to display them ??
As always, when these people are challenged they get all bolshy and arrogant.  
Take it to ‘NON FOOTY’ so I have an idea of what topic I will be reading !!!

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

I was really struck by the title of this thread. It doesn't have to be arts v football, it's possible to like both. I have (genuinely) been to the Albert Hall to see Messiah and it was amazing. I have also been to Stevenage to watch Town. And it wasn't.

We need consistency in all areas or at least a clear explanation of why rules are different for different venues and events. I agree that it makes no sense to allow events in the Albert Hall but not football matches but we should push for a clear explanation not slag off southerners (or exiled northerners) because they want to go to the Albert Hall.

Up The Mariners and Go On GF Handel.

I was lucky enough to support Town during the  Buckley era.

So I went to BP and got to see the Messiah 😉

Quoted from Civvy at last

I was lucky enough to support Town during the  Buckley era.

So I went to BP and got to see the Messiah 😉

Saw what you did there........

Quoted from Civvy at last

I was lucky enough to support Town during the  Buckley era.

So I went to BP and got to see the Messiah 😉

A lot on here still think Corbyn is the Messiah

[quote=763]

Their opinions are as legitimate as anybody else’s.
But is a fourth division FOOTBALL  forum the place to display them ??
As always, when these people are challenged they get all bolshy and arrogant.  
Take it to ‘NON FOOTY’ so I have an idea of what topic I will be reading !!! [/


I have to say I see just as much from both sides.  In any case, when government policy has a direct and possibly mortal effect on the club then surely it’s a football thread.

Quoted from 140381

[quote=763]

Their opinions are as legitimate as anybody else’s.
But is a fourth division FOOTBALL  forum the place to display them ??
As always, when these people are challenged they get all bolshy and arrogant.  
Take it to ‘NON FOOTY’ so I have an idea of what topic I will be reading !!! [/


I have to say I see just as much from both sides.  In any case, when government policy has a direct and possibly mortal effect on the club then surely it’s a football thread.

So you believe that LHs statement that the Conservatives don’t care about the working class is relevant in this thread ????
He didn’t mention football. He didn’t mention GTFC.
He didn’t mention actual policies related to football in general.  Just the usual attack on the Tories at any given opportunity!!  And he’s a Mod FFS.  
His opinion is as relevant as anybody else’s.
But shouldn’t be stated in this thread unless he can link it to football !!!

One post doesn’t make a thread. If it was the first post, you may have had a point. But it wasn’t and the thread as a whole is football related.

Quoted from Civvy at last

I’m starting to think that this site has become a mouthpiece for the left wingers that turn every thread into a political point scoring exercise !!  NON FOOTY COMMENT.

Still,  I’m sure the MODs will sort it.

Oh,  

I guess Rob needs the clicks for revenue. So will quite happily let this continue unabated !!!

Point scoring? The Albert Hall is allowing thousands of  people in and toffs can go shooting with dozens of others but us scruffy oiks can’t go and sit outside distanced from others to watch football. The government are allowing themselves and their pals to go back to normal things they enjoy but not us. Why aren’t you mad about this?

Is the Albert Hall large enough for a game of footy ?

If yes, problem solved.

Quoted from Civvy at last

I’m starting to think that this site has become a mouthpiece for the left wingers that turn every thread into a political point scoring exercise !!  NON FOOTY COMMENT.

Still,  I’m sure the MODs will sort it.

Oh,  

I guess Rob needs the clicks for revenue. So will quite happily let this continue unabated !!!

I never notice you complaining when someone makes a right wing point. You don’t really have a problem with politics. You have a problem with people having different political views to your own.

Quoted from Civvy at last

So you believe that LHs statement that the Conservatives don’t care about the working class is relevant in this thread ????
He didn’t mention football. He didn’t mention GTFC.
He didn’t mention actual policies related to football in general.  Just the usual attack on the Tories at any given opportunity!!  And he’s a Mod FFS.  
His opinion is as relevant as anybody else’s.
But shouldn’t be stated in this thread unless he can link it to football !!!

Does the entire thread prior to his post, the second comment in particular, not provide the context?

Quoted from Mariner Ronnie

Am I the only person that thinks this COVID farce is going to be over straight after the presidential election?

Election over, vaccine announced, looks like someone was right 😇

Quoted from Mariner Ronnie

vaccine announced,

About time .I suppose the good thing that comes out of all this is some of us wont take nothing for granted ever again. Health is everything .Ive known for one people that have died of the Covid virus . Iam sure reading national Geographic magazine recently that a new virus will come along again . I just hope it wont be for a long time to come.

I think this boxing champion summed it up below :

[tweet]1273397506026745858[/tweet]

As were being run by the scientists and they were predicting a second wave right from the start do you think they were desperate to make the figures look bad thus covering their arses. The official enquiry in a couple of years will make interesting reading, that’s if Boris allows it to be published.

Quoted from Gaffer58

As were being run by the scientists and they were predicting a second wave right from the start do you think they were desperate to make the figures look bad thus covering their arses. The official enquiry in a couple of years will make interesting reading, that’s if Boris allows it to be published.

I think some members of the public have  a lot to answer for. Had they followed government/scientific  advice the virus would have been kept under control better. For some its a blasé attitude that allowed this virulent virus to resurface time and again. Hopefully this vaccine will knock the stuffing out of it and we can all get back to normal.

Quoted from Gaffer58

As were being run by the scientists and they were predicting a second wave right from the start do you think they were desperate to make the figures look bad thus covering their arses. The official enquiry in a couple of years will make interesting reading, that’s if Boris allows it to be published.

Of course we’re not being run by ‘the scientists’. They’re advisers. Government, rightly, make the decisions on a range of factors, nit just science. Besides, forecasts of anything are always hedged around by scientists because nothing is known for certain until it happens. There would be no egg on any faces if a second wave didn’t arrive.

As it happens, perhaps you can tell all those people who have contracted the virus, got sick from it and died in recent weeks that the situation has been exaggerated to cover someone’s bottom?

Quoted from Rick12

I think some members of the public have  a lot to answer for. Had they followed government/scientific  advice the virus would have been kept under control better. For some its a blasé attitude that allowed this virulent virus to resurface time and again. Hopefully this vaccine will knock the stuffing out of it and we can all get back to normal.

Some of the public! Are you on meth?

We were in lockdown for a couple of months and generally followed it diligently. We're then told to 'eat out to help out' and then the kids can go back to school and university but, hang on it's back so......Tier 1, Tier 2 and then another lockdown.....

And in the meantime key public figures ignore their own bloody guidance. Track and trace is a joke. But it's the public who are at fault......

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

Some of the public! Are you on meth?

We were in lockdown for a couple of months and generally followed it diligently. We're then told to 'eat out to help out' and then the kids can go back to school and university but, hang on it's back so......Tier 1, Tier 2 and then another lockdown.....

And in the meantime key public figures ignore their own bloody guidance. Track and trace is a joke. But it's the public who are at fault......

Iam not on meth but on facts. Most people did follow the rules but a few didnt. Because we were in lockdown people had no alternative and couldn't go anywhere etc. No wonder the virus went down. It seems likely that the government wanted to get things back to some normality due to financial reasons and tried the best they could with this new tier tracing system . In Spain for instance who have been one of the worst affected countries strict lockdown measures  ensured new cases were kept at bay. Recently though it seems when things were lifted something which is known as the "bottellon" which is where mainly youngsters have ignored government advice  grouping together in large numbers and drinking alcohol and not wearing masks  have been one of the main reasons why there has been a spike again. Madrid and other cities for one having to go into severe lockdown measures again.

Look at past history of pandemics and science shows consistently that when tough restrictions are put in place things can be controlled.

I’m not sure a few folk deciding to wander around and not stand 6ft from someone is the reason a virus has spread.

I mean lead by example and all that, springs to kind but it’s impossible for anyone to defend the fact it’s been very much a do as we say not as we do approach...

I don’t think this is a case of the arts versus football, more the arts that are enjoyed by the ruling classes and elite versus football...let’s face it, a huge chunk of arts funding is handed over to the opera.

It’s always seen as a lefty take over when people suddenly don’t agree with them or when people with left leaning, liberal, socialist, insert whichever you feel state fact or share a significantly more informed opinion it is shot down.

Simple fact is, the debate as to whether it’s an arts or football debate will forever return to politics, it’s impossible for it not too.

I’d hazard a guess that the first sport to allow real crowds at professional level will probably be rugby Union...

Of course it will. Because as we all ‘know’ rugby Union people don’t do silly things like get drunk and misbehave.

I don't think there can be any argument that some of the public have behaved in a manner that has helped the virus spread.

But equally so the Government really haven't helped themselves at all.  (This isn't a dig at a political party either - my personal view is that very early on we should have adopted a war style cabinet with no political affiliations.  Get the best people on board, regardless of their political persuasion.  Now is not the time for point scoring, that can come later once the dust has settled).  

We were too late to initially lockdown.  By the time we had, the virus was rife.  Guidance was wooly at best and only got worse.  The Government failed to show we're all in it together (Cummings going to Durham, Gove photographed not wearing a mask in a shop and the guidance tweaked to save him).  This led to a further delay in wearing a mask when in shops etc. which came after the ongoing argument that masks didn't help (which went against common science).  

In relation to the economy, fair enough I do get that the Government has to do something.  But Eat Out To Help Out?  I mean for crying out loud.  We've got a virus that's still active and we're actively encouraging people to go and sit in a closed environment with other people they don't know.  That's despite having a Track and Trace system that is, at best, crap.  Oh and then there's the failure of the testing system, people completely unable to get a test despite displaying symptoms.   At this point a lot of food outlets were diversifying their model to do takeaway/delivery food - that's something the Government could have got behind.  Returning to something like the norm was lazy and stupid.  They should have supported local businesses to stay alive through alternative methods.  Not chuck people into an enclosed environment to allow the virus to breed.

We've then had the farce in relation to sport.  You can't, under any circumstance, watch sport live.  Even if you're 100 metres away from the nearest person in an open environment.  You can, however, watch that sporting event in a cinema or a pub where the nearest person to you is 6 feet away...

Then of course there's the PPE farce, the fact that a bumbling Tory Peer was put in charge of the Test and Trace system, the more recent vaccine 'tsar' giving away vaccine information on paid for sessions to commercial provider....need I go on.

In any situation like this, you've got to expect the public behave in a sensible way.  Clearly this hasn't happened across the board.  But you also expect your Government to lead by example.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

I never notice you complaining when someone makes a right wing point. You don’t really have a problem with politics. You have a problem with people having different political views to your own.

If I said I was Tory I would get at least 10  x's including one from you but if I said I was labour I would only get 5

I think what the government are concerned about is thousands of fans from different parts of the country  travelling up and down the country.

Having fans only attending home games sitting at a social distance is no danger at all.

If they are all season ticket holders the club's can remove them from the games if they misbehave which I am sure they wont.

Let's hope this vaccine works and we get enough of it so we can all get back before the end of the season.

Quoted from golfer

If I said I was Tory I would get at least 10  x's including one from you but if I said I was labour I would only get 5

Are you saying that the Tories are more unpopular than Labour 😆

Quoted from diehardmariner

I don't think there can be any argument that some of the public have behaved in a manner that has helped the virus spread.

But equally so the Government really haven't helped themselves at all.  (This isn't a dig at a political party either - my personal view is that very early on we should have adopted a war style cabinet with no political affiliations.  Get the best people on board, regardless of their political persuasion.  Now is not the time for point scoring, that can come later once the dust has settled).  

We were too late to initially lockdown.  By the time we had, the virus was rife.  Guidance was wooly at best and only got worse.  The Government failed to show we're all in it together (Cummings going to Durham, Gove photographed not wearing a mask in a shop and the guidance tweaked to save him).  This led to a further delay in wearing a mask when in shops etc. which came after the ongoing argument that masks didn't help (which went against common science).  

In relation to the economy, fair enough I do get that the Government has to do something.  But Eat Out To Help Out?  I mean for crying out loud.  We've got a virus that's still active and we're actively encouraging people to go and sit in a closed environment with other people they don't know.  That's despite having a Track and Trace system that is, at best, crap.  Oh and then there's the failure of the testing system, people completely unable to get a test despite displaying symptoms.   At this point a lot of food outlets were diversifying their model to do takeaway/delivery food - that's something the Government could have got behind.  Returning to something like the norm was lazy and stupid.  They should have supported local businesses to stay alive through alternative methods.  Not chuck people into an enclosed environment to allow the virus to breed.

We've then had the farce in relation to sport.  You can't, under any circumstance, watch sport live.  Even if you're 100 metres away from the nearest person in an open environment.  You can, however, watch that sporting event in a cinema or a pub where the nearest person to you is 6 feet away...

Then of course there's the PPE farce, the fact that a bumbling Tory Peer was put in charge of the Test and Trace system, the more recent vaccine 'tsar' giving away vaccine information on paid for sessions to commercial provider....need I go on.

In any situation like this, you've got to expect the public behave in a sensible way.  Clearly this hasn't happened across the board.  But you also expect your Government to lead by example.

I agree on the war cabinet point. But we haven’t got that, and if we have a government leading us to defeat on a war the opposition ought to point out where it’s going wrong.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Are you saying that the Tories are more unpopular than Labour 😆

I sense a touch of bigotry

Quoted from golfer

I sense a touch of bigotry

Then stop being bigoted

Just commenting on some earlier comments made:

TheTories might not care about the working classes.  But in the Midlands and the North many working class voters helped put them in power at the last General Election.

Football has been treated very shabbily by the Government.  However, it is perhaps not as simple as projected.   Football fans in a socially-isolated stadium will sing, chant and shout.  Maybe move around.  Singing etc is more likely to spread Covid.

I watched a family funeral yesterday on a webcam.  No hymns were allowed.  This was because of
the Covid risk mentioned above.

Football fans would also be likely to congregate far more closely in pubs, food venues and on public transport.  (When pubs are open).

What the present government have done is surround themselves with their Eton elite friends, with no input from anyone else. Dido Harding for example, a baroness who is chair of the jockey club who run horse racing. What is it that makes her the best person to run test and trace when there are MPs who are doctors and nurses for example? This cronyism is what is leading to their ineptitude, because they haven't got a clue, and only look after their elite friends and stuff the great unwashed who actually voted them in.

Quoted from mimma

What the present government have done is surround themselves with their Eton elite friends, with no input from anyone else. Dido Harding for example, a baroness who is chair of the jockey club who run horse racing. What is it that makes her the best person to run test and trace when there are MPs who are doctors and nurses for example? This cronyism is what is leading to their ineptitude, because they haven't got a clue, and only look after their elite friends and stuff the great unwashed who actually voted them in.

Her desire to essentially replace the NHS with an insurance based system probably makes her w good candidate for Boris and chums...

In all seriousness, this notion of ‘singing’ or people talking louder and the reasons for pubs/clubs not being able to play music loudly will likely increase the risk, how accurate is that? Let’s face it, two weeks ago they were telling us a vaccination (for those wanting one) was a while off yet a week after a US election and here we are...

It’s very apparent the ruling classes and elite will look out only for themselves which means football, gigs and the like will suffer...

Quoted from KingstonMariner

I agree on the war cabinet point. But we haven’t got that, and if we have a government leading us to defeat on a war the opposition ought to point out where it’s going wrong.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Backing measures with a caveat of 'but we're not sure if we agree' is anything but opposition.  

It's an unhealthy situation.

The government during the war was a coalition of all the political parties, not one of a single party. There was a general election after the war in which Churchill and the Conservative party were soundly beaten.