Definitely football related

Quoted from pen penfras

Things would have been chaotic whoever was in charge. Every country is complaining just like this.

As for them being out for themselves, I think that's a long way from the truth. Everybody wants to do good and improve things for the country and their constituents, it's just incredibly hard to actually make a difference. Plus more than half of the country don't support your party, and not everybody who does agrees with you, so it really is a no win situation.

I could not disagree with you more. There are undoubtedly some MPs who are doing it for the good of the wider populace but this government is packed with self interested b*stards who couldn't give a sh*t about anybody else.

I'll give you one example: Rees-Mogg runs an investment fund. He has moved it's nominal headquarters from London to Dublin so that it can benefit from free access to the EU and the tax advantages that being based in Dublin come with. For those slow on the uptake....the arch Brexiteer and the man who effectively brought down May has moved his business to benefit from the EU.

Quoted from Humbercod

I take exception to you “not blaming the NHS” it’s certainly no hero!
The doctors and Nurses most certainly are.
We had an elderly relative admitted to hospital a few days ago with chest problems, he was released the following morning but get this no COVID test! He was re-admitted yesterday with same symptoms an he’s only just been told that he’s got fluid on the lungs, he’s now had a COVID test and waiting on the result.
As bad as the Government has been with their decision making it’s the control which has rubbed most people up the wrong way, I think it’s given us all a scary insight to socialism and state control, God only knows how bad things would of been with the other lot in charge..

This quote is absolutely typical of the new right. A right wing populist government introduces draconian anti-democratic measures and it's an insight into what socialism might be. No it isn't, it's happening right now and is an insight into this government and it's thinking.

A couple of days ago in the House of Commons Matt Hancock was asked a perfectly reasonable question by the MP for Slough and Hancock berated the MP for his "divisive language" and sat down in a hissy fit. He never answered the question.

This is a government that does not like scrutiny, believes it knows best and wishes that everybody would shut up and do what they're told. NOT an insight into socialism.

Quoted from Gaffer58

Not taking any political side at all, but do people really believe things would be any less confusing, or we would be getting on top of the virus If Labour, Liberals or even a The Greens were in charge, they are all politicians, very few have ever done anything like work, they are only looking after themselves and preparing themselves for their next highly paid tax payer funded salary with a very generous pension scheme.

Move away from the partisan question of would Labour/Libs/Dems do better. That is irrelevant. The key question is how could this government have done better? And it's very obvious that it could have done much, much better. Hold this government accountable for it's action/non actions.

Ask why we are in the top 5 globally for deaths per capita. Ask why there has been no strategy (or a woefully inadequate one). Ask why the government bought millions of pounds of PPE that wasn't fit for purpose when it arrived. Ask why Universities were allowed to reopen at a time when it was becoming obvious that young adults were a key source of spreading the virus. Ask why political dogma has more weight than scientific advice. Ask Michael Gove why we shouldn't have listened to experts about Brexit but we should about COVID. Ask why the track and trace app was promised in April but delivered in October and it still doesn't work properly. Ask why the current data being published is so shambolic.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

Move away from the partisan question of would Labour/Libs/Dems do better. That is irrelevant. The key question is how could this government have done better? And it's very obvious that it could have done much, much better. Hold this government accountable for it's action/non actions.

Ask why we are in the top 5 globally for deaths per capita. Ask why there has been no strategy (or a woefully inadequate one). Ask why the government bought millions of pounds of PPE that wasn't fit for purpose when it arrived. Ask why Universities were allowed to reopen at a time when it was becoming obvious that young adults were a key source of spreading the virus. Ask why political dogma has more weight than scientific advice. Ask Michael Gove why we shouldn't have listened to experts about Brexit but we should about COVID. Ask why the track and trace app was promised in April but delivered in October and it still doesn't work properly. Ask why the current data being published is so shambolic.

The Government followed it's pandemic plan in January to March. The problem was this plan was for Flu not a Coronavirus. The mistake was keeping the SAGE meetings secretive and information on a need to know basis. This is the hallmark of Cummings. Under the last Labour Government the equivalent of SAGE's minutes were published. This allowed peer review and I suspect that would have allowed virologists to point out the fundamental flaw in the Government's original plan.

We then went into a herd immunity strategy which meant that we failed to ramp up testing or purchase the requisite PPE, until we had to about turn in mid March. The Government can again be blamed for dithering for 10 days to impose a lockdown when the scientists were telling them to. They were planning on the hoof and terrified that the NHS would collapse, like it had in Italy, by Mid March and therefore this led to the calamity in the care homes.

The next big stuff up (and the one that is still plaguing us) is with track and trace. There were two potential models. Outsource the project to a company or devolve it local authorities to manage. Unsurprisingly, the Conservatives chose the private sector model by bunging 10 billion to Serco and it has been a disaster. Local Health authorities already had the expertise, the local knowledge and the skills to make this work. In areas that are ignoring the Government and doing there own tracing they are having much more success.  The reason we can't go to Grimsby's games is because they have stuffed this up.

It's clearly a very difficult situation but the two principle reasons for the failure of our response are because of two features of this Tories Government - secrecy and a reliance on big business.

Whichever you vote, the one thing that everyone should acknowledge is that our testing system has been a complete failure. Dido Harding is the epitome of everything wrong with the government - privilege does not mean competence and Hancock's continued failure to do something about the system will ultimately lead to people dying unnecessarily.

One example is travel. Whether you agree with people holidaying or not, I was told by someone high up in the aviation industry that airport testing was ready to roll out in June. It's now October and they are going to announce something today. For four months, they've effectively strangled travel just to justify Priti Patel's quarantine policy. We travelled to a 'dirty' country, quarantined accordingly, not one call to any of the four phone numbers we submitted.

I agree that any political party in government during this pandemic would have struggled.

But it comes down to how willing you are to learn from others. There were many other nations badly affected by this virus before we were - China, Italy, France to name a few.

Relatively speaking, we had a two-week head start to see what these nations were doing well, what they were failing at, and adjust as best we could. So the day when Ireland went into lockdown, what was Boris saying?

"Wash your hands more often!" And that was it.

A week later we're told to work from home, and a week after that we go into lockdown. But the damage had already been done.

I always say, hindsight is the winner in all of this, but this government had a head start compared to those other nations and they dallied. They were pushing the 'herd immunity' concept before they finally decided that lockdown was the answer.

Everything they've done since then — almost everything — has been either late, confused or inadequate.

I don't vote Tory but I'm telling you now, if any other party were in power and making saw an awful hash of this situation then I'd be saying exactly the same things. Because this isn't about political allegiances, it's about people's lives.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Whichever you vote, the one thing that everyone should acknowledge is that our testing system has been a complete failure. Dido Harding is the epitome of everything wrong with the government - privilege does not mean competence and Hancock's continued failure to do something about the system will ultimately lead to people dying unnecessarily.

One example is travel. Whether you agree with people holidaying or not, I was told by someone high up in the aviation industry that airport testing was ready to roll out in June. It's now October and they are going to announce something today. For four months, they've effectively strangled travel just to justify Priti Patel's quarantine policy. We travelled to a 'dirty' country, quarantined accordingly, not one call to any of the four phone numbers we submitted.

I’ve heard airport testing isn’t very reliable. Something like only 7percent accurate. Due to incubation period. So lot of false positives and false negatives.

But I must admit my source is unreliable at best. As I heard Dominic raab say this on tv other week.

Back onto topic. Just let us back in you bunch of felicitations

Quoted from 3610

I’ve heard airport testing isn’t very reliable. Something like only 7percent accurate. Due to incubation period. So lot of false positives and false negatives.

But I must admit my source is unreliable at best. As I heard Dominic raab say this on tv other week.

Back onto topic. Just let us back in you bunch of felicitations

"airport testing" is an interesting one - my partner is a Japanese national and arrived at Heathrow from Japan on September 12th. She was amazed that there was no COVID test (even temperature taken), no questions, nothing. Passport checked and on you go.

If I were really cynical I would say that airport testing isn't reliable because there isn't any! (based on a study of one).

Quoted from RichMariner

I agree that any political party in government during this pandemic would have struggled.

But it comes down to how willing you are to learn from others. There were many other nations badly affected by this virus before we were - China, Italy, France to name a few.

Relatively speaking, we had a two-week head start to see what these nations were doing well, what they were failing at, and adjust as best we could. So the day when Ireland went into lockdown, what was Boris saying?

"Wash your hands more often!" And that was it.

A week later we're told to work from home, and a week after that we go into lockdown. But the damage had already been done.

I always say, hindsight is the winner in all of this, but this government had a head start compared to those other nations and they dallied. They were pushing the 'herd immunity' concept before they finally decided that lockdown was the answer.

Everything they've done since then — almost everything — has been either late, confused or inadequate.

I don't vote Tory but I'm telling you now, if any other party were in power and making saw an awful hash of this situation then I'd be saying exactly the same things. Because this isn't about political allegiances, it's about people's lives.

Be careful with 'any party would have struggled' - it will be the Tory's get out of jail free card when we come round to the next election. They will hope that 4 years worth of events since COVID will have dulled our memories and they can pull that one out of the hat to skip over history. But if the economy is still tanking it will be down to COVID and not this government. They will try to have their cake and eat it.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

I could not disagree with you more. There are undoubtedly some MPs who are doing it for the good of the wider populace but this government is packed with self interested b*stards who couldn't give a sh*t about anybody else.

I'll give you one example: Rees-Mogg runs an investment fund. He has moved it's nominal headquarters from London to Dublin so that it can benefit from free access to the EU and the tax advantages that being based in Dublin come with. For those slow on the uptake....the arch Brexiteer and the man who effectively brought down May has moved his business to benefit from the EU.

Do we even have such a thing as an honourable MP these day? It seems most of them across all party’s are out for themselves one way or another. You’ve only got to look at the expenses, some MPs are claiming more than their annual salary! And how does the Labour shadow cabinet claim more than 50% of the current government? (And with less numbers) Even Starmer claims more for his personal staff than the PM how can this be? There was a report a few years ago that detailed politicians who hold directorships in firms with annual revenues of £220 billion and only 40% of them are declared!