XI vs Morecambe 2016

Quoted from ginnywings

That really is an underwhelming team and shows how much the promotion side was dismantled. It's baffling as to why it was deemed necessary to totally purge a promotion side. Most teams who get promoted keep the nucleus of the players and add to it with a bit more quality here and there. Another opportunity to progress missed.

In that piece by Amond where he described the reasons around him leaving, he said he had been told by Hurst that the club wanted to sign more league standard players. So one has to ask, why didn't we? The players we did sign were no better than what we had (with one or two exceptions) and they didn't have that togetherness that promoted sides build up, and gives momentum beyond their abilities. It was a big mistake.

Of course, the biggest loss was yet to happen when Hurst packed his bags and headed for the Shrews. It's been another sh1t show ever since.

I'd give my eye teeth for that 2016 team now mind.

I still think that the decision to dismantle that team was the correct one.  That team absolutely fell over the line and was massively aided by the ability of Jon Nolan, a guy who we were never going to be able to hold onto (but hey, massive kudos to Hurst for identifying and bringing in a guy who was up until that point just floundering!).

The issue for me is that we didn't upgrade.  We downgraded and I don't know if that was down to bad recruitment or penny pinching, I suspect a combination of both.

The sad thing, as with most promotion sides, is that the better players were picked off.  Tait was an outstanding right-back and whilst in Ben Davies and Zak Mills we didn't do badly in their recruitment, they weren't at Tait's level.  The pace and athletic ability of Toto at the back was always going to be a huge absence and in the following 5 years we've still not replaced him.  Nolan, as mentioned above, was the last midfielder we had (loanees aside) with the ability to influence the game.  

Amond has been covered to high heaven and will go down as one of the many huge own goals this club has scored in recent times.  But he's the only one I think we got wrong in terms of players we should have kept.   Clay, Arnold, Monkhouse, Robertson, Pitman...all good players for us at that level but we should have improved on.  But we didn't.  Berrett, Chambers, Vernon etc. were all huge downgrades.  The only improvement we made was at left back (Robertson for Andrew).  

Rose-tinted glasses probably makes us reflect on that 2016 side as a better side than it actually was, I actually think the side the year before was a better one but both would absolutely wipe the floor with every side we've had since getting back into the league.  The only one I think may have given it a game was the one just before the season curtailed last year that had Clarke, Vernam, Benson, Glennon etc. in.  

Quoted from diehardmariner

I still think that the decision to dismantle that team was the correct one.  That team absolutely fell over the line and was massively aided by the ability of Jon Nolan, a guy who we were never going to be able to hold onto (but hey, massive kudos to Hurst for identifying and bringing in a guy who was up until that point just floundering!).

The issue for me is that we didn't upgrade.  We downgraded and I don't know if that was down to bad recruitment or penny pinching, I suspect a combination of both.

The sad thing, as with most promotion sides, is that the better players were picked off.  Tait was an outstanding right-back and whilst in Ben Davies and Zak Mills we didn't do badly in their recruitment, they weren't at Tait's level.  The pace and athletic ability of Toto at the back was always going to be a huge absence and in the following 5 years we've still not replaced him.  Nolan, as mentioned above, was the last midfielder we had (loanees aside) with the ability to influence the game.  

Amond has been covered to high heaven and will go down as one of the many huge own goals this club has scored in recent times.  But he's the only one I think we got wrong in terms of players we should have kept.   Clay, Arnold, Monkhouse, Robertson, Pitman...all good players for us at that level but we should have improved on.  But we didn't.  Berrett, Chambers, Vernon etc. were all huge downgrades.  The only improvement we made was at left back (Robertson for Andrew).  

Rose-tinted glasses probably makes us reflect on that 2016 side as a better side than it actually was, I actually think the side the year before was a better one but both would absolutely wipe the floor with every side we've had since getting back into the league.  The only one I think may have given it a game was the one just before the season curtailed last year that had Clarke, Vernam, Benson, Glennon etc. in.  

Disagree, if you keep the core of a team that could work together, had a good dressing room, and had a good work ethic, then replacing a Nolan would've been a much simpler problem.

the core of 2016 and 2015 was mostly the same. We could've invested in some of the things Hurst wanted and kept Hurst, and we'd have found those players of quality like Nolan or magnay from 2015, kept that feel good factor, should've capitalised and had season tickets on sale the week after the playoff final. There's no way we could've replaced the entire squad with a much higher quality one so why not retain that core and add to it. The biggest mistake the club has made, 100%

Fair points.  But a huge part of the core was leaving regardless though.   We were never going to keep Toto, Tait and Nolan for various reasons.

I'd argue, with hindsight, that we should have kept Clay and obviously Amond.  Arnold too in fact as he was still a very useful player for Lincoln the following season whereas we had a smattering of players in his position with little impact.  

But the missed opportunity, for me, wasn't in not retaining the team.  It was in not improving on it.  Perhaps unfortunate that two of the key players we did keep it in Gowling and Disley struggled to make the step back up.

You'll have no arguments from me on the failing to ride the crest of the feel good wave or not investing in pretty much every area.

I just think that the changes were too much too soon. It wasn't really about the quality of the players let go, it was that the spirit that had built up between them was swept away almost overnight.

A team with spirit and camaraderie will often outperform a team with better individual players. It should have been a more organic process, over a longer period, in my opinion.

Losing the key players that got us up was yet another example of our idiocy.

I agree that team needed strengthening to be competitive in L2, but Toto, Nolan, and Amond were definitely more than good enough, and several others would have done a decent job, especially with a couple of quality additions.

But as usual we just let our best players walk away. And signing the two midfield players who took York out of L2 the previous season gives another clue as to the false economies that have characterised the mismanagement of this club for years.      

It is no accident that this club is in the shite.

Quiz question: what does the aforementioned Andrew Boyce have in common with child genius conspiracy theorist John Oster AND, erm, Dean Sinclair?

Both came on loan to us (possibly twice) as well as having been a contracted player?

Quoted from ginnywings

I just think that the changes were too much too soon. It wasn't really about the quality of the players let go, it was that the spirit that had built up between them was swept away almost overnight.

A team with spirit and camaraderie will often outperform a team with better individual players. It should have been a more organic process, over a longer period, in my opinion.

I agree with you, keep what you've got and improve when can.

' You might be cynical and say Fenty did just that. Kept his bank balance and improved it by paying out less"

Quoted from diehardmariner

I still think that the decision to dismantle that team was the correct one.  That team absolutely fell over the line and was massively aided by the ability of Jon Nolan, a guy who we were never going to be able to hold onto (but hey, massive kudos to Hurst for identifying and bringing in a guy who was up until that point just floundering!).

The issue for me is that we didn't upgrade.  We downgraded and I don't know if that was down to bad recruitment or penny pinching, I suspect a combination of both.

The sad thing, as with most promotion sides, is that the better players were picked off.  Tait was an outstanding right-back and whilst in Ben Davies and Zak Mills we didn't do badly in their recruitment, they weren't at Tait's level.  The pace and athletic ability of Toto at the back was always going to be a huge absence and in the following 5 years we've still not replaced him.  Nolan, as mentioned above, was the last midfielder we had (loanees aside) with the ability to influence the game.  

Amond has been covered to high heaven and will go down as one of the many huge own goals this club has scored in recent times.  But he's the only one I think we got wrong in terms of players we should have kept.   Clay, Arnold, Monkhouse, Robertson, Pitman...all good players for us at that level but we should have improved on.  But we didn't.  Berrett, Chambers, Vernon etc. were all huge downgrades.  The only improvement we made was at left back (Robertson for Andrew).  

Rose-tinted glasses probably makes us reflect on that 2016 side as a better side than it actually was, I actually think the side the year before was a better one but both would absolutely wipe the floor with every side we've had since getting back into the league.  The only one I think may have given it a game was the one just before the season curtailed last year that had Clarke, Vernam, Benson, Glennon etc. in.  

The side that ever so nearly go promoted the year before would probably have been better placed to compete in the league above. Bristol Rovers, who only just beat us remember, kept the structure of their side together and went straight up to L1 the following season. I think ultimately it came down to investment. We had seen Arnold, Tait and Amond had all had a go in L2 before and had ended up dropping back down to the Conference.

Hurst was aware that a large proportion of that squad wasn't quite well enough equipped to compete properly in that league. I think Hurst harbored ambitions of higher than 14th and released players or didn't try that hard to keep some, because he was under the illusion he could get better quality in. It's been mooted we only offered 10pc pay rises, despite the norm being 25pc increases for contracted players. Penny pinching again, and you can imagine the offers to players who ended up going elsewhere weren't anything like as good as they should've been. Hence we ended up with Vernon, Berrett and Boyce among others.

After promotion, we missed a real opportunity to push forward. Hursty wouldn't have sodded off to Shrewsbury at the first available opportunity if it had all been right here. Offering better terms to players like Toto and Nolan, who have played regularly in sides trying to get promoted from L1 into the Championship and a bigger budget for new signings would've gone a long way with Hurst's ability to spot good players, especially given that there isn't much of a gap in quality between the top and bottom of this league.

Quoted from Madeleymariner

Both came on loan to us (possibly twice) as well as having been a contracted player?

Aye. Although I was just thinking of a lazy 'they had 3 spells with us' so good extra info-ing!