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 TownSNAFU5 |
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BBC news story today. Portsmouth need to quadruple their wages to be competitive in the Championship. Their squad is valued at about £2 million. Other teams valued at £100 million.
Football Financial expert Kieran Maguire said that promoted teams need to be ready for the “brutal” financial nature of the Championship.
He said that the average loss per week is a massive £476,000.
I almost feel sorry for Lincoln if they get there. They won at close rivals Oxford last night.
Ipswich are a very impressive exception. Especially, when competing with parachute payments.
Also cannot see us getting into the Championship, Division 1 is tough enough to get to and survive.
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| RichMariner |
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Wow, that’s insane. I remember Danny Coyne was rumoured to be our highest earner in the 1999-2001 era and that was supposedly around £4k a week.
Not sure what our squad’s wage added up to back then, but using that figure as a barometer I’m guessing 22 players on an average of £2.5k is fair… that’s around £55k a week, plus non-playing staff costs…
All that was offset by match day income, player sales (which were rare), etc.
It’s just a different beast now. How is our country’s game sustainable if clubs are willing to lose half a million quid a week, for what?
Is the dream to play in the PL really worth putting your club’s existence in jeopardy? Maybe they all think there are saviours lining up, willing to take on that debt in the hope that they will be the ones capable of leading them to the promised land?
But even if you do make the PL, you need to spend phenomenal amounts just to compete again. More debt, etc.
I know some people may accuse me of having a lack of ambition, but I’d just like to see us go as far as we can without overspending. I think bottom half of L1 seems doable. Anything beyond that, in today’s game, is overachieving in my opinion.
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| "Don't shine that light in my face, mate - I've just lost a pint of blood." |
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| jamesgtfc |
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Wow, that’s insane. I remember Danny Coyne was rumoured to be our highest earner in the 1999-2001 era and that was supposedly around £4k a week.
Not sure what our squad’s wage added up to back then, but using that figure as a barometer I’m guessing 22 players on an average of £2.5k is fair… that’s around £55k a week, plus non-playing staff costs…
All that was offset by match day income, player sales (which were rare), etc.
It’s just a different beast now. How is our country’s game sustainable if clubs are willing to lose half a million quid a week, for what?
Is the dream to play in the PL really worth putting your club’s existence in jeopardy? Maybe they all think there are saviours lining up, willing to take on that debt in the hope that they will be the ones capable of leading them to the promised land?
But even if you do make the PL, you need to spend phenomenal amounts just to compete again. More debt, etc.
I know some people may accuse me of having a lack of ambition, but I’d just like to see us go as far as we can without overspending. I think bottom half of L1 seems doable. Anything beyond that, in today’s game, is overachieving in my opinion.
It's a billionaires playground. Stoke City are owned by bet365 who paid their founder Denise Coates a salary of £221m last year plus a rumoured dividend of £50m. Despite this though, one of their players from the women's team who plays in a bet365 sponsored kit has to crowdfund major knee surgery sustained playing for them. It's so, so wrong. https://gofund.me/03748468 |
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| Heisenberg |
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I cannot advise enough of you to listen to the podcast The Price of Football. It is a geek-fest, admittedly, but Keiran McGuire comes out with FACTS like this every week. Football is completely broken, honestly, an idiotic shambles.
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| louth_in_the_south |
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But remember… “ when the fun stops , stop “ yeah righto the betting industry cares about you !!
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| Lower F5 |
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 Heswall Mariner |
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But remember… “ when the fun stops , stop “ yeah righto the betting industry cares about you !!
On Monday afternoon I went to collect my meagre National winnings from the - localish - Betfred. I was told by a grinning lad that there was no cash available to pay me & he didn't know when it would be available. I accepted that it was not his fault. I pointed out that they seemed to be taking bets from the few punters in the the shop & that could very well be illegal if they were unable to honour any possible returns. Okay I eventually drove back the few miles to Betfred & collected my winnings - but what miffed me was that these billionaire owners didn't seem to have made it a priority to provide immediately to honour their obligations ASAP. Rant over - UTM. |
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| denni266 |
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Its a far cry from the average working mans game anymore. It seems more like a rich mans play thing. There is no such thing as a level playing field anymore .We would be lucky to survive in div 1 now even if we could afford to get there in the first place. Makes you wonder if there is any point anymore
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| moosey_club |
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Makes you wonder if there is any point anymore
Escape the Mrs for a few hours without too many questions..... Mind you...have been getting questioned why I do go when I come home mardy as my bottom most weeks 😆 |
| 2023/24 DLWDDWDLLLWDLLLLWDDDWDLLWLDLLDWDDWLLDWLWLWL but not NLN 😁 2022/23LDWDWWDWLLDWWDLLLDLWLLWLWLLWDDLDWWDDDLLWDWLWLW 2021/22 WDWWWWDLWWWWLLLWLLDLWLLWWDWWWLWDLWWDWWWDLWD play offs WWW Promoted 🥳 2020/21 LLDWWLDLDWLWLLLDLWLLDLLDLLLWLLLDDDDWDDDLWLWLWL .. hello darkness my old friend 2019/20 WDLDWWLDLWWLLLDLDLDLDDWWDLLWDDWWL  WLLW - ended 2018/19 LWDDLLLLLLWWDWLLLWDWLWWWWLLLLWWWWDLLLDDLLDLWLW Hello Scunny  |
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| thornemariner |
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On Monday afternoon I went to collect my meagre National winnings from the - localish - Betfred.
I was told by a grinning lad that there was no cash available to pay me & he didn't know when it would be available. I accepted that it was not his fault.
I pointed out that they seemed to be taking bets from the few punters in the the shop & that could very well be illegal if they were unable to honour any possible returns.
Okay I eventually drove back the few miles to Betfred & collected my winnings - but what miffed me was that these billionaire owners didn't seem to have made it a priority to provide immediately to honour their obligations ASAP.
Rant over - UTM.
I managed betting shops decades ago. I'd never grin if I'd been cleaned out but wasn't able to pay out on some large bets on occasion which the punters accepted. I could always pay out more modest earnings and in the days where you had more people in the shop, you could carry on taking bets because you'd always be winning some of that. I don't know what it's like now but you had a limited float in those days and banked excess funds in the morning after adjusting for any liabilities over a tenner. It made holding up a bookies less attractive. Having been on the receiving end of a few blags with sawn-offs in a short period of time I completely agree with that stance. I ran one place opposite a bank's sub-branch and spent one week relieving them of their high denomination notes by cashing reserve cheques as I was cleaned out day after day by heavy hitters. I actually ran well above target profit but got a right caning now and again. Exciting days but left the job to get Saturdays off again and watch Town. While the first eleven or twelve years were great, the last twenty plus have been awful! |
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| GrimPol |
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Escape the Mrs for a few hours without too many questions.....
Mind you...have been getting questioned why I do go when I come home mardy as my bottom most weeks 😆
Yes it was pure escapism in the "old days" now its a toss-up between BP for a couple of hrs or manning The Samaritan's phones. Depressing. |
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| diehardmariner |
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I managed betting shops decades ago. I'd never grin if I'd been cleaned out but wasn't able to pay out on some large bets on occasion which the punters accepted. I could always pay out more modest earnings and in the days where you had more people in the shop, you could carry on taking bets because you'd always be winning some of that.
I don't know what it's like now but you had a limited float in those days and banked excess funds in the morning after adjusting for any liabilities over a tenner. It made holding up a bookies less attractive. Having been on the receiving end of a few blags with sawn-offs in a short period of time I completely agree with that stance.
I ran one place opposite a bank's sub-branch and spent one week relieving them of their high denomination notes by cashing reserve cheques as I was cleaned out day after day by heavy hitters. I actually ran well above target profit but got a right caning now and again. Exciting days but left the job to get Saturdays off again and watch Town. While the first eleven or twelve years were great, the last twenty plus have been awful!
20ish years ago I worked in a bookies and it hadn't changed much then. It's quite normal after the National, Derby, Gold Cup days et al. that you don't have enough cash in the shop to pay out everyone. Few occasions it happened, like yourself, you make sure it's the big hitters who have to wait. One pay out for them can wipe you out completely, whereas you can keep dozens and dozens of small winning punters happy for the same amount of cash. Just to add to the tales around betting profits etc. I never ever saw a day where the shop I was in ran at anything other than a profit. Even when it was a case of the big favourites winning in the big races, it still ran at a profit. Which makes me laugh when you see headlines that state the bookies have been taken to the cleaners by a short priced favourite. Believe me, there's plenty of other bets that are placed to more than offset any 'loss' made. The adage of you never see a poor bookie couldn't be more true. I left around the time that Fixed Odds Terminals started to come in and dominate. You always had guys (and girls) who would rinse themselves in the bookies and it was heartbreaking. There was one occasion where a guy came in on a Friday afternoon with his pay packet in hand and bit by bit by bit ate away it and ended up chasing his money. It didn't take that long for him to really get down to the bare bones of it. In the end his last roll of the dice got him most of his money back and he was almost in tears watching each race. But seeing people just put note after note after note into virtual racing and virtual roulette as it wasn't real money was scary stuff. Racing and the Dogs to an extent was staggered enough so you had a break/time to cool off. Fruit machines only accepted coins so you could, in theory, only lose so much at a certain rate. But the Terminals just ate £10 notes, £20 notes, even £50 notes. They, more than anything, made such a huge profit and were far more addictive than anything else. Scary. |
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| CSLM |
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20ish years ago I worked in a bookies and it hadn't changed much then.
It's quite normal after the National, Derby, Gold Cup days et al. that you don't have enough cash in the shop to pay out everyone. Few occasions it happened, like yourself, you make sure it's the big hitters who have to wait. One pay out for them can wipe you out completely, whereas you can keep dozens and dozens of small winning punters happy for the same amount of cash.
Just to add to the tales around betting profits etc. I never ever saw a day where the shop I was in ran at anything other than a profit. Even when it was a case of the big favourites winning in the big races, it still ran at a profit. Which makes me laugh when you see headlines that state the bookies have been taken to the cleaners by a short priced favourite. Believe me, there's plenty of other bets that are placed to more than offset any 'loss' made. The adage of you never see a poor bookie couldn't be more true.
I left around the time that Fixed Odds Terminals started to come in and dominate. You always had guys (and girls) who would rinse themselves in the bookies and it was heartbreaking. There was one occasion where a guy came in on a Friday afternoon with his pay packet in hand and bit by bit by bit ate away it and ended up chasing his money. It didn't take that long for him to really get down to the bare bones of it. In the end his last roll of the dice got him most of his money back and he was almost in tears watching each race. But seeing people just put note after note after note into virtual racing and virtual roulette as it wasn't real money was scary stuff. Racing and the Dogs to an extent was staggered enough so you had a break/time to cool off. Fruit machines only accepted coins so you could, in theory, only lose so much at a certain rate. But the Terminals just ate £10 notes, £20 notes, even £50 notes. They, more than anything, made such a huge profit and were far more addictive than anything else.
Scary.
Yep I have worked in a couple of bookies and those machines are like crack.
I suppose it's only the same as online which is 24 hours a day and probably even more dangerous.
The bookies get away with murder around all of the "responsible" gambling and how they limit the accounts of people who try put bets on that they don't want to take.
Things have slightly improved but there is still loads more that could be done. Once you've been tempted in by the countless offers it is very easy to get into trouble.
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| BobbyCummingsTackle |
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Yes it was pure escapism in the "old days" now its a toss-up between BP for a couple of hrs or manning The Samaritan's phones. Depressing.
Don't go to watch Town: man the Samaritans phone line. Do go to watch Town: call the Samaritans phone line. |
| Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice. |
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| rancido |
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20ish years ago I worked in a bookies and it hadn't changed much then.
It's quite normal after the National, Derby, Gold Cup days et al. that you don't have enough cash in the shop to pay out everyone. Few occasions it happened, like yourself, you make sure it's the big hitters who have to wait. One pay out for them can wipe you out completely, whereas you can keep dozens and dozens of small winning punters happy for the same amount of cash.
Just to add to the tales around betting profits etc. I never ever saw a day where the shop I was in ran at anything other than a profit. Even when it was a case of the big favourites winning in the big races, it still ran at a profit. Which makes me laugh when you see headlines that state the bookies have been taken to the cleaners by a short priced favourite. Believe me, there's plenty of other bets that are placed to more than offset any 'loss' made. The adage of you never see a poor bookie couldn't be more true.
I left around the time that Fixed Odds Terminals started to come in and dominate. You always had guys (and girls) who would rinse themselves in the bookies and it was heartbreaking. There was one occasion where a guy came in on a Friday afternoon with his pay packet in hand and bit by bit by bit ate away it and ended up chasing his money. It didn't take that long for him to really get down to the bare bones of it. In the end his last roll of the dice got him most of his money back and he was almost in tears watching each race. But seeing people just put note after note after note into virtual racing and virtual roulette as it wasn't real money was scary stuff. Racing and the Dogs to an extent was staggered enough so you had a break/time to cool off. Fruit machines only accepted coins so you could, in theory, only lose so much at a certain rate. But the Terminals just ate £10 notes, £20 notes, even £50 notes. They, more than anything, made such a huge profit and were far more addictive than anything else.
Scary.
My father was an independent bookie and had his own shop from around 1960 until he retired in 1975. We had a decent life but certainly not a luxurious one. We lived in a small terrace house built in 1932 when my parents moved in as newly weds. We certainly didn't seem to have anymore than our neighbours who had mostly blue collar jobs. It's easy to forget that the big freeze in the early 60's and the big foot and mouth epidemic not long after, stopped all horse racing and as a consequence no money coming in. My father was self-employed so no State help either. Just pointing out that not all bookies had wealthy lives , some, like my father, made a living with the added risk of unforeseen circumstances affecting things. |
| The Future is Black & White.
"The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa |
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| David Frazer |
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Anybody got the figures for league 1 ? You will find our 2 to 3million losses quite small as well .
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| Lost in Lincoln |
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Yep I have worked in a couple of bookies and those machines are like crack.
I suppose it's only the same as online which is 24 hours a day and probably even more dangerous.
The bookies get away with murder around all of the "responsible" gambling and how they limit the accounts of people who try put bets on that they don't want to take.
Things have slightly improved but there is still loads more that could be done. Once you've been tempted in by the countless offers it is very easy to get into trouble.
They're only interested in limiting accounts of the few people that win money. I'll assume you've heard of 'matched betting', I used to make a few quid doing that, but as soon as you are regularly winning, they dont want to take your bets. All this 'responsible gambling' nonsense they spout is just because they have to. Radio stations like TalkSPORT on EVERY show have at least one feature from betting companies. The Premier League is awash with adverts from betting companies, yet a player dares to have a bet and they get banned. It's all hypocritical tosh that they spout whilst lining their pockets from people's misery. |
| First game: 7/5/88 Aldershot (h) 1-1 (R) |
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| thornemariner |
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Table Wine Drinker Posts: 697
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20ish years ago I worked in a bookies and it hadn't changed much then.
It's quite normal after the National, Derby, Gold Cup days et al. that you don't have enough cash in the shop to pay out everyone. Few occasions it happened, like yourself, you make sure it's the big hitters who have to wait. One pay out for them can wipe you out completely, whereas you can keep dozens and dozens of small winning punters happy for the same amount of cash.
Just to add to the tales around betting profits etc. I never ever saw a day where the shop I was in ran at anything other than a profit. Even when it was a case of the big favourites winning in the big races, it still ran at a profit. Which makes me laugh when you see headlines that state the bookies have been taken to the cleaners by a short priced favourite. Believe me, there's plenty of other bets that are placed to more than offset any 'loss' made. The adage of you never see a poor bookie couldn't be more true.
I left around the time that Fixed Odds Terminals started to come in and dominate. You always had guys (and girls) who would rinse themselves in the bookies and it was heartbreaking. There was one occasion where a guy came in on a Friday afternoon with his pay packet in hand and bit by bit by bit ate away it and ended up chasing his money. It didn't take that long for him to really get down to the bare bones of it. In the end his last roll of the dice got him most of his money back and he was almost in tears watching each race. But seeing people just put note after note after note into virtual racing and virtual roulette as it wasn't real money was scary stuff. Racing and the Dogs to an extent was staggered enough so you had a break/time to cool off. Fruit machines only accepted coins so you could, in theory, only lose so much at a certain rate. But the Terminals just ate £10 notes, £20 notes, even £50 notes. They, more than anything, made such a huge profit and were far more addictive than anything else.
Scary.
I worked in St John's Wood and that did take some serious money. I worked in Reading in the late 80s and it really was a boom town with plenty of construction work going on. I had the odd week when I might lose a bit but my profit rate was over three times the target in the longer term. That place also took a lot of money so inevitably a big hitter could make a dent in it on occasion. I wouldn't normally have a problem paying out a few grand as long as it wasn't from the first race. Loved the buzz most of the time. I was pretty much allowed to run the place as I saw fit without any interference from higher up as they were more than happy with the way things went. All changed now. I wouldn't have liked to have worked in a place with those terminals. |
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| CSLM |
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They're only interested in limiting accounts of the few people that win money.
I'll assume you've heard of 'matched betting', I used to make a few quid doing that, but as soon as you are regularly winning, they dont want to take your bets.
All this 'responsible gambling' nonsense they spout is just because they have to.
Radio stations like TalkSPORT on EVERY show have at least one feature from betting companies. The Premier League is awash with adverts from betting companies, yet a player dares to have a bet and they get banned.
It's all hypocritical tosh that they spout whilst lining their pockets from people's misery.
It's not even necessarily winning bets. If you place a couple of large singles they will soon limit the account even if you lose them all. The main aim nowadays is to get you hooked on the casino side of things. That's where they want you gambling. |
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| louth_in_the_south |
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It's not even necessarily winning bets. If you place a couple of large singles they will soon limit the account even if you lose them all.
The main aim nowadays is to get you hooked on the casino side of things. That's where they want you gambling.
This is 💯 correct. The whole aim of stirring up the fight against affordability checks in sports betting, mainly that in horse racing where the betting companies know the clientele have persuasive powers towards the government, is so that there are no affordability checks down the line in casino betting where they make the vast majority of their profit. I’m not against betting btw , just the sly , pernicious way they manipulate . |
| Lower F5 |
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| CSLM |
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This is 💯 correct. The whole aim of stirring up the fight against affordability checks in sports betting, mainly that in horse racing where the betting companies know the clientele have persuasive powers towards the government, is so that there are no affordability checks down the line in casino betting where they make the vast majority of their profit. I’m not against betting btw , just the sly , pernicious way they manipulate .
Yep and then there is the hoops they make you jump through to withdraw any decent amount while happily accepting 10 times that amount. All not very fair I would say. |
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| Maringer |
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Regarding online betting, there's a guy who sits in the row in front of me at the match who seems to spend half the game on his phone putting bets on. I realise the fare on display hasn't been great for some time, but it just goes to show how easy it is to do the online stuff and how addictive it is to some. Not a young lad, either.
I do wonder what network he uses because my Internet connectivity in the Upper Findus has always been crap!
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| Abdul19 |
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It's not even necessarily winning bets. If you place a couple of large singles they will soon limit the account even if you lose them all.
The main aim nowadays is to get you hooked on the casino side of things. That's where they want you gambling.
Sports betting takes millions every day. Any bookie that's restricting because of 2 large single bets is proper tinpot! |
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Sports betting takes millions every day. Any bookie that's restricting because of 2 large single bets is proper tinpot!
I know two of the big boys who have done exactly that. |
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| forza ivano |
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Slough's manager Scott davies is a survivor. Take a look at his story.
His mum n my wife as are besties. The pain he put them through is awful. The stories I've heard about Evans n the pernicious nature of gambling would make your hair curl
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