Relegation (merged)

We’re sinking quicker than the titanic. Poor recruitment, tactically inept, can’t defend, can’t score and Ollie has lost the plot.

Sorry Ollie, you’ve had your time as a manager. Time to go and for us bring in a manager that can overhaul this team in January and save us from relegation.

We can’t afford to leave it too long before getting rid like we did with Slade.

Squeaky, you should follow him out the door as well.

This squad has relegation written all over it. Just a sorry shower of excrement.

No fight no ideas no creativity no leaders no spark. A bunch of strangers being asked to do things they arent good enough to do by a man who’s out of touch with this level. Im embarrassed to be a town fan

All the classic signs of a team that’s had enough of the manager

His ego is bigger than the club, won't admit that the system he's playing doesn't work and is costing us games and a shifty out the league. Like Ive put on another thread, this club needs a fresh start from top to bottom, wipe the whole lot out and start again whether it be out the league the fans will alway be there but this bunch of pathetic dossers won't.

If Ollie gets January we're down

Haven't watched tonight and I'm sure it's as bad as people have reported but we were always going to be beaten by Newport.  As Poojah has been at pains to point out, our next 6 games are as good a barometer as we can get.  If we're in a similar position after that then it might be time to press the panic button.  We can only hope that Ollie realises he's in a relegation fight before it's too late.

'Relegation'
YES

Quoted from MarinerDevil

Haven't watched tonight and I'm sure it's as bad as people have reported but we were always going to be beaten by Newport.  As Poojah has been at pains to point out, our next 6 games are as good a barometer as we can get.  If we're in a similar position after that then it might be time to press the panic button.  We can only hope that Ollie realises he's in a relegation fight before it's too late.

I can see what you mean but there isn't much quality in this side and you reap what you sow when you under fund quality on the pitch. It's not only Ollie who needs to wake up but the board too, seen and heard all the boards balderdash before, under fund the team then say they'll put money in come January, The board and Ollie need to take a good look at where we are and hang their heads in shame, shite football and poor players. This is a relegation side, one of the worse we have had in a long while, not as bad as the one that saw us drop out of the league but they aren't far off.

Quoted from MarinerDevil

Haven't watched tonight and I'm sure it's as bad as people have reported but we were always going to be beaten by Newport.  As Poojah has been at pains to point out, our next 6 games are as good a barometer as we can get.  If we're in a similar position after that then it might be time to press the panic button.  We can only hope that Ollie realises he's in a relegation fight before it's too late.

On current form and performances it’ll be stupidity to give him that long . He needs to go in the morning and give Davies and whoever else is probably waiting in the wings to get this squad reorganised, reinvigorated and believing in what they’re being told to do .

Quoted from GrimRob

If Ollie gets January we're down

Agreed

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

All the classic signs of a team that’s had enough of the manager

He's hard enough to decipher in a press conference never mind in training every day, he's get right on your mammaries after a while.

Nothing will change until Fenty goes.

It always ends in tears. Holloway has had an amazing carear why can’t he do it with us? Jolley, excellent young manager, keeps us up then it all goes sour. Bignot considered to be a really good up and coming manager, it ends up crackers. Rob Scott loses the plot, Woods, who is a good man and a good coach can’t arrest our slide. Our best manager Buckley goes sour. Why?

Well there is one common denominator - John Fenty. In our entire history we’ve generally bounced around the top 3 tiers, only very occasionally ending up in tier 4. Under Fenty we’ve challenged near the top of tier 4 - ONCE in the best part of two decades.

We have 3 local rivals - Lincoln, Scunny and Hell.  Why is it that before Fenty we were a bigger club than all of them now they are bigger clubs than us?

How many years have we being moving to a new ground - nothing is delivered!

Listen to what McDermott says about him, listen to interviews with ex players who say that they received offensive pay offers. Why do we lose a good manager in Hurst - because we’re tight and won’t get a strength and conditioning coach. Why is it that clubs whose average attendance is half of ours have far better facilities?

Fenty is a small town Mike Ashley. He’s overseeing a slow death. We might stay up this season but sooner or later we’ll go down again. Because he is strangling this club.

Quoted from horsforthmariner

Nothing will change until Fenty goes.

It always ends in tears. Holloway has had an amazing carear why can’t he do it with us? Jolley, excellent young manager, keeps us up then it all goes sour. Bignot considered to be a really good up and coming manager, it ends up crackers. Rob Scott loses the plot, Woods, who is a good man and a good coach can’t arrest our slide. Our best manager Buckley goes sour. Why?

Well there is one common denominator - John Fenty. In our entire history we’ve generally bounced around the top 3 tiers, only very occasionally ending up in tier 4. Under Fenty we’ve challenged near the top of tier 4 - ONCE in the best part of two decades.

We have 3 local rivals - Lincoln, Scunny and Hell.  Why is it that before Fenty we were a bigger club than all of them now they are bigger clubs than us?

How many years have we being moving to a new ground - nothing is delivered!

Listen to what McDermott says about him, listen to interviews with ex players who say that they received offensive pay offers. Why do we lose a good manager in Hurst - because we’re tight and won’t get a strength and conditioning coach. Why is it that clubs whose average attendance is half of ours have far better facilities?

Fenty is a small town Mike Ashley. He’s overseeing a slow death. We might stay up this season but sooner or later we’ll go down again. Because he is strangling this club.

Amen to this! Death of the club.

Laughable stats at the end:

58% possession
0 clear cut chances
0 successful crosses

Pointless tippy-tappy football where we struggle to even get our of our own half without making a mistake. Usually managers complain about lack of quality the final third, we hardly even get that far.

Anyone suggesting or arguing we’re not relegation fodder is deluded.

They might have been top but literally never laid a glove on them.

They’ve barely broken sweet tonight and once again all we’ll have is excuses and see little change next game...

Quoted from horsforthmariner

Nothing will change until Fenty goes.

It always ends in tears. Holloway has had an amazing carear why can’t he do it with us? Jolley, excellent young manager, keeps us up then it all goes sour. Bignot considered to be a really good up and coming manager, it ends up crackers. Rob Scott loses the plot, Woods, who is a good man and a good coach can’t arrest our slide. Our best manager Buckley goes sour. Why?

Well there is one common denominator - John Fenty. In our entire history we’ve generally bounced around the top 3 tiers, only very occasionally ending up in tier 4. Under Fenty we’ve challenged near the top of tier 4 - ONCE in the best part of two decades.

We have 3 local rivals - Lincoln, Scunny and Hell.  Why is it that before Fenty we were a bigger club than all of them now they are bigger clubs than us?

How many years have we being moving to a new ground - nothing is delivered!

Listen to what McDermott says about him, listen to interviews with ex players who say that they received offensive pay offers. Why do we lose a good manager in Hurst - because we’re tight and won’t get a strength and conditioning coach. Why is it that clubs whose average attendance is half of ours have far better facilities?

Fenty is a small town Mike Ashley. He’s overseeing a slow death. We might stay up this season but sooner or later we’ll go down again. Because he is strangling this club.

This with bells on.

We are probably already down and out .. Ollie took it out on Macca  when realy its the 10 in front that are not any good

Think ive had enough. Ollie will post match it by saying, "the virus doesnt help, the injuries have come at a bad time, Newport played well, my boys played some good passes, we just need confidense".
  Will someone knock on Ollies door and say weve had enough. Hursty still got no job, he cant be any worse, i,d have him back.

Don’t forget put other excuse, we haven’t got a space being enough to sit down our squad in and talk to the together...which is literally a made up comment.

Quoted from GrimRob

Laughable stats at the end:

58% possession
0 clear cut chances
0 successful crosses

Pointless tippy-tappy football where we struggle to even get our of our own half without making a mistake. Usually managers complain about lack of quality the final third, we hardly even get that far.

Gibson should have done better first half and we hit the bar so we did have some clear cut chances.

Agree with the pointless tippy-tapping bit though.

We lack fight and bite all over the park

Broken record time but this team had bottom 5 written all over it before the season started. He’s also been unlucky with injuries to some of our better players, agree about the barometer over the next 6 games though by then we should know if it’s bottom 5 or bottom 2.

That was bloody awful again.. fraid the recruitment and the clubs whole outlook on this season is now showing.

Time for change from the top down.

intercourse me Ollie thinks we were great except up front.
Dear oh dear

Sad and V Worried Town Fan Tonight
Not quite sure where we go from here, National League I guess?
Its becoming an easy three points for everyone we play
Think I would take some PH solidness and dullness at the moment
Love him or hate him we had a togetherness in the team that I have not seen since he left
Has our form dipped further since Limbrick left?
I am struggling to have faith in IH now
Can’t see where we the next point will come, never mind 3
Come On Town need a result from somewhere

Quoted from davmariner

We’re sinking quicker than the titanic. Poor recruitment, tactically inept, can’t defend, can’t score and Ollie has lost the plot.

Sorry Ollie, you’ve had your time as a manager. Time to go and for us bring in a manager that can overhaul this team in January and save us from relegation.

We can’t afford to leave it too long before getting rid like we did with Slade.

Squeaky, you should follow him out the door as well.

Sadly, we have this post every 12 to 18 months. Substitute Ollie for Newell, Woods, Bignot, Slade, Jolley and this post could be from any point in time.

Can't see any manager making a difference without a change at the top, in either personnel or attitude.

I honestly don't know whether to be angry or laugh, we are a joke and the penny pinching will always get you in the end.

Conference here we come.

Quoted from ginnywings

Sadly, we have this post every 12 to 18 months. Substitute Ollie for Newell, Woods, Bignot, Slade, Jolley and this post could be from any point in time.

Can't see any manager making a difference without a change at the top, in either personnel or attitude.

Correct

I think it proves what a job Hurst and that squad actually did...the leadership of the club was rotten but they succeeded.

Since then it’s been ineptitude and ineptitude...we’re atrocious off the pitch and lack any single idea of progression or ambition.

Now that’s being replicated on the pitch...

Quoted from ginnywings

Sadly, we have this post every 12 to 18 months. Substitute Ollie for Newell, Woods, Bignot, Slade, Jolley and this post could be from any point in time.

Can't see any manager making a difference without a change at the top, in either personnel or attitude.

Cowley?

Quoted from ironwin

Cowley?

Good shout but they wouldn't work for minimum wage now.

Quoted from ginnywings

Good shout but they wouldn't work for minimum wage now.

Maybe job share?

It’s not the manager it’s the flipping non chairman.
Whoever is in charge has to do absolutely everything on the cheap and it shows. Holloway went hunting for bargains because he had to. I’m not pretending there aren’t issues there, but he is not the root cause. Not by a long way.

Cowley over Hurst?
Plus not sure we could afford Cowley?
Having said that it would be great for the Cowleys to be amongst real fans in their thousands home and away taking the team along on a wave of results and confidence
Yes Cowley could work and he has said to me twice personally we have great support

I am bloody fed up of thinking our new manager will turn things round.

It does not matter who he is a young one with brains and top coaching badges or a top manager who is a bit barmy.

None of them can produce a good winning team.

Sick to my back teeth and fed up thinking of going on a pilgrimage to get away from hearing about we played some good stuff but LOST .Again and again and again.

Get rid of all the dross you brought in Ollie then follow them out the door you are a fruit loop (now where have I heard that before ) and take Fenty  with you.

Quoted from Theimperialcoroner

It’s not the manager it’s the flipping non chairman.
Whoever is in charge has to do absolutely everything on the cheap and it shows. Holloway went hunting for bargains because he had to. I’m not pretending there aren’t issues there, but he is not the root cause. Not by a long way.

Totally agree. Holloway being here and still the same outcomes screams that the problem is elsewhere. 14th in League 2 is the best outcome in 15 years. That really is excrement.

Quoted from Theimperialcoroner

It’s not the manager it’s the flipping non chairman.
Whoever is in charge has to do absolutely everything on the cheap and it shows. Holloway went hunting for bargains because he had to. I’m not pretending there aren’t issues there, but he is not the root cause. Not by a long way.

I absolutely agree, but why did Ollie agree with it? Should have told the non-chairman where to go and insisted we do things the right way.

The only explanation I can give is that Ollie thought the season would not finish due to covid, and he has been very worried about covid all the way through.

We will have to treat January as the start of the season and splash the cash.

Quoted from grimsby pete

I am bloody fed up of thinking our new manager will turn things round.

It does not matter who he is a young one with brains and top coaching badges or a top manager who is a bit barmy.

None of them can produce a good winning team.

Sick to my back teeth and fed up thinking of going on a pilgrimage to get away from hearing about we played some good stuff but LOST .Again and again and again.

Get rid of all the dross you brought in Ollie then follow them out the door you are a fruit loop (now where have I heard that before ) and take Fenty  with you.

Good to hear you are back to your best Pete  

Fully agree by the way  

Cowley's get real people they are never ever gonna sign for this shower. I honestly couldn't see Hurst coming back either unless he was absolutely desperate for a wage

It matters not one jot anyhow as whoever the manager is we will be eshit, surely that's obvious now?

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I absolutely agree, but why did Ollie agree with it? Should have told the non-chairman where to go and insisted we do things the right way.

The only explanation I can give is that Ollie thought the season would not finish due to covid, and he has been very worried about covid all the way through.

We will have to treat January as the start of the season and splash the cash.

Said this loads of time
With him in charge when has the cash ever been splashed.

Quoted from TAGG

Said this loads of time
With him in charge when has the cash ever been splashed.

Well when I say splash the cash, I really mean normal contracts, signing league standard players. The sort of thing every other club does!

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Well when I say splash the cash, I really mean normal contracts, signing league standard players. The sort of thing every other club does!

nice one

Quoted from Theimperialcoroner

It’s not the manager it’s the flipping non chairman.
Whoever is in charge has to do absolutely everything on the cheap and it shows. Holloway went hunting for bargains because he had to. I’m not pretending there aren’t issues there, but he is not the root cause. Not by a long way.

I'm not disagreeing about the budget but it was Holloway's choice how to spend it. His choice to get a massive squad where he is guaranteed to have dozens of people sat in the stand. His choice to do Premier-league style rotation and playing out from the back like we're Man City. His whole approach is completely unsuited to the club he's at.

Quoted from horsforthmariner

Nothing will change until Fenty goes.

It always ends in tears. Holloway has had an amazing carear why can’t he do it with us? Jolley, excellent young manager, keeps us up then it all goes sour. Bignot considered to be a really good up and coming manager, it ends up crackers. Rob Scott loses the plot, Woods, who is a good man and a good coach can’t arrest our slide. Our best manager Buckley goes sour. Why?

Well there is one common denominator - John Fenty. In our entire history we’ve generally bounced around the top 3 tiers, only very occasionally ending up in tier 4. Under Fenty we’ve challenged near the top of tier 4 - ONCE in the best part of two decades.

We have 3 local rivals - Lincoln, Scunny and Hell.  Why is it that before Fenty we were a bigger club than all of them now they are bigger clubs than us?

How many years have we being moving to a new ground - nothing is delivered!

Listen to what McDermott says about him, listen to interviews with ex players who say that they received offensive pay offers. Why do we lose a good manager in Hurst - because we’re tight and won’t get a strength and conditioning coach. Why is it that clubs whose average attendance is half of ours have far better facilities?

Fenty is a small town Mike Ashley. He’s overseeing a slow death. We might stay up this season but sooner or later we’ll go down again. Because he is strangling this club.

Excellent post.

I remember Jeff Stelling once ranting about Dave Jones when he was at Hartlepool. “ this is not your level of football”. Ended in relegation.... i see striking similarities

Quoted from Hagrid

I remember Jeff Stelling once ranting about Dave Jones when he was at Hartlepool. “ this is not your level of football”. Ended in relegation.... i see striking similarities

I thought the same, this is comparable to that.

Just listened to the post-match interview. Even more worried than I was after the final whistle.

You can still get 4/1 on us getting relegated from Bet Victor. Have to question that they only think there is a 20% chance of us ending in the bottom 2.

I would bring Graham Alexander in from tomorrow.

Are we underfunded, yes, but this recruitment has been nothing short of a disaster.  Id even hedge a bet that Holloway brought players in that he'd never seen play before, or from one of his classy scouts.

All this, they dont do what I tell them to, its balderdash.

Anyone got Tom Shutes phone number?

Quoted from dicko995

Anyone got Tom Shutes phone number?

what to come in as manager?

Quoted from dicko995

Hursty still got no job, he cant be any worse, i,d have him back.

Do you honestly think he would come back under Fenty?

Quoted from WayneBurnettsJockstrap

Do you honestly think he would come back under Fenty?

Hopefully now that we have a strength and conditioning coach.

To be honest, bringing him back would be a shrewd move. We need some shape to our team.

Quoted from dicko995

Think ive had enough. Ollie will post match it by saying, "the virus doesnt help, the injuries have come at a bad time, Newport played well, my boys played some good passes, we just need confidense".
  Will someone knock on Ollies door and say weve had enough. Hursty still got no job, he cant be any worse, i,d have him back.

You’d think that with our 75 man squad we might have enough cover for these injuries ?

Quoted from Boris Johnson

what to come in as manager?

No as striker. He Shutes, he scores.

I don’t think Hurst would step foot in the club again whilst Fenty is still here.

I’d imagine that’s often a reason why we struggle to recruit, word gets around.

It’s like the never ending story, every January we rebuild or waste more cash on players to plug gaps, to stay in the league and then summer rolls around and we penny pinch or waste the money, as we did this year on quantity rather than quality, scoffed at clubs that went a bit their business as normal, and funnily enough, many of them are doing ok...we on the other hand seem to have 156 injured players and 234 that aren’t good enough...but it’s ok, we scapegoated the goalkeeper and it’s all Covids fault.

May be there was a reason Holloway was out of work for so long?

Is getting rid the answer? Probably not, we’re crying out for some stability but how long do you let it go on?

When you think about it ylthe clubs Holloway has managed in the past he would of been surrounded by various different coaching staff. Apart from Davis who isn't experienced he's on his own managing 30 plus players. Im sure if we where to get a experienced assistant it would help him massively.

Realy urined off with the whole situation. Excuse after excuse , Penny pinching all the time  managers that dont understand that midfielders are not fullbacks   , full backs are not natural wingbacks .  Goalkeepers are usually crap with there feet  and 4 tier defenders are not footballers usually cloggers and better with there head . STOP this playing out from the back now , go back to 442. use players in there natural positions and keep the shape all the time, And get some players in of the required standard , we dont have time to waste trying to educate young players in the first team .  Just basics thats all, Our club is at serious risk to mess with . Yes this is aimed at Ollie  either do it or get out of town and take your so called players you got in with you

Jesus wept...the issue isn't the manager, his tactics or his recruitment.  The issue is the bloke who has suffocated the life out this club for the last 20 years.

The players aren't good enough.  Why?  Because they're cheap as intercourse!  Why did Holloway bring so many in?  Because not only are they not good enough, they're not physically capable of playing week-in-week-out.

Over the last few seasons we've brought in Glennon, Benson, Robson, Embleton...all good exciting young players that are highly rated and with their parent clubs keeping a watchful eye on them.  To the extent that Embleton was handed a new deal upon returning to Sunderland, Benson made his Premier League debut the other week - less than a year since he played his last game for us.

This season we've got lads in who are miles and miles down the pecking order at their clubs, simply put they're not as good as what we've previously had - therefore they'll be cheaper.

Morton spent last season on loan at FGR - 12 games.  Before that he was Bath City and Chippenham Town.  I'm no football snob and appreciate the value of players dropping down levels to enhance their schooling.  But in context that's the career path as someone who is 6 months older than Benson.

Preston - Alfreton Town last season.
Edwards - Bath City
Taylor - No loan spells.  He's one of 70 (yeah, I've just counted!)  Under 21 players registered as part of Wolves Premier League squad.  He's not busting any doors down there.
Windsor - Taunton Town

Our best player this year has been Edwards.  No disrespect to the lad, who I think could actually be a half decent player with coaching, but his end product is non-existent.  But in a normal season he would be someone who you might throw on for the last 10 minutes to cause a bit of upset with his pace.  He's now our main man.

Despite all the bluster about needing any potential buyers to pick up any shortfall, Fenty and this board have done exactly the opposite.  Sitting on their hands and letting the fans contribute to their begging bowl, once again reading the situation wrong, slashing the budget and with it losing players of quality and then expecting the manager to pull some rabbit out the hat.

It doesn't matter who the manager is, you can't produce a competitive squad with buttons.  Holloway has gambled with the high turnover because he didn't have the option of bringing in quality players who are fit and will stay fit.  There's a reason Scannell's here, because he's made of glass.  There's a reason Danny Rose with his relatively good pedigree is here, because he can't stay fit...

We've got rid of our assistant manager.  We can argue that it was because he disagreed with the situation all we like, but we got rid of him and we didn't replace.  It's penny pinching.  We've got limited coaching, quite evident by the lack of shape.  We're forever picking up niggles, knocks and strains which suggests our sports science set-up isn't good enough and/or we've got players who can't hack it (I imagine a combination of both)....what do people expect?

In the summer it was obvious and clear from very early on that no-one else was cutting their cloth as small as we were.  The board bang on about how they're there to pick up any slack if it's needed.  Well it was flipping needed this summer!   The irony of dismissing Schutes and co. because they didn't provide assurances how they would provide financial support as they sat congratulating themselves on making a 4p profit whilst the manager tries to make do with building a squad that is made up of cheap kids no-one else wants because they're not good enough and cheap oldies that no-one else wants because they're broken.

The club needed the board to do what they expected Schutes to do, put their hand in their pocket and help us out.  I never want the club to be anymore in debt to Fenty than it is and has been.  But don't flipping stand behind your puppet and tell us you're not selling the club because someone won't do the exact thing you've failed to do!

Go.  Just go.  Get out of the club.  Agree a plan to get your loans back (which were needed because of your sheer incompetence at running a football club) and let someone else have a go.  

As for playing out from the back.  You have to start somewhere, you can't just flick a switch and all your players become better players who can pass it about with ease.  I actually like that Holloway wants to impose that kind of philosophy and identify on the club.  

Besides, the other option is just going long and watching it come straight back.  We've no-one capable of holding the ball up so we're screwed either way.  

Quoted from diehardmariner

Jesus wept...the issue isn't the manager, his tactics or his recruitment.  The issue is the bloke who has suffocated the life out this club for the last 20 years.

The players aren't good enough.  Why?  Because they're cheap as intercourse!  Why did Holloway bring so many in?  Because not only are they not good enough, they're not physically capable of playing week-in-week-out.

Over the last few seasons we've brought in Glennon, Benson, Robson, Embleton...all good exciting young players that are highly rated and with their parent clubs keeping a watchful eye on them.  To the extent that Embleton was handed a new deal upon returning to Sunderland, Benson made his Premier League debut the other week - less than a year since he played his last game for us.

This season we've got lads in who are miles and miles down the pecking order at their clubs, simply put they're not as good as what we've previously had - therefore they'll be cheaper.

Morton spent last season on loan at FGR - 12 games.  Before that he was Bath City and Chippenham Town.  I'm no football snob and appreciate the value of players dropping down levels to enhance their schooling.  But in context that's the career path as someone who is 6 months older than Benson.

Preston - Alfreton Town last season.
Edwards - Bath City
Taylor - No loan spells.  He's one of 70 (yeah, I've just counted!)  Under 21 players registered as part of Wolves Premier League squad.  He's not busting any doors down there.
Windsor - Taunton Town

Our best player this year has been Edwards.  No disrespect to the lad, who I think could actually be a half decent player with coaching, but his end product is non-existent.  But in a normal season he would be someone who you might throw on for the last 10 minutes to cause a bit of upset with his pace.  He's now our main man.

Despite all the bluster about needing any potential buyers to pick up any shortfall, Fenty and this board have done exactly the opposite.  Sitting on their hands and letting the fans contribute to their begging bowl, once again reading the situation wrong, slashing the budget and with it losing players of quality and then expecting the manager to pull some rabbit out the hat.

It doesn't matter who the manager is, you can't produce a competitive squad with buttons.  Holloway has gambled with the high turnover because he didn't have the option of bringing in quality players who are fit and will stay fit.  There's a reason Scannell's here, because he's made of glass.  There's a reason Danny Rose with his relatively good pedigree is here, because he can't stay fit...

We've got rid of our assistant manager.  We can argue that it was because he disagreed with the situation all we like, but we got rid of him and we didn't replace.  It's penny pinching.  We've got limited coaching, quite evident by the lack of shape.  We're forever picking up niggles, knocks and strains which suggests our sports science set-up isn't good enough and/or we've got players who can't hack it (I imagine a combination of both)....what do people expect?

In the summer it was obvious and clear from very early on that no-one else was cutting their cloth as small as we were.  The board bang on about how they're there to pick up any slack if it's needed.  Well it was flipping needed this summer!   The irony of dismissing Schutes and co. because they didn't provide assurances how they would provide financial support as they sat congratulating themselves on making a 4p profit whilst the manager tries to make do with building a squad that is made up of cheap kids no-one else wants because they're not good enough and cheap oldies that no-one else wants because they're broken.

The club needed the board to do what they expected Schutes to do, put their hand in their pocket and help us out.  I never want the club to be anymore in debt to Fenty than it is and has been.  But don't flipping stand behind your puppet and tell us you're not selling the club because someone won't do the exact thing you've failed to do!

Go.  Just go.  Get out of the club.  Agree a plan to get your loans back (which were needed because of your sheer incompetence at running a football club) and let someone else have a go.  

Brilliant summing up
Sometimes people on here nail it

I think we all know with this team we are down.

Will the return of our fans lift the team to maybe scrape a few wins to claw our way to safety.

I think Southend are doomed then it’s one from probably 5 or 6 teams.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Jesus wept...the issue isn't the manager, his tactics or his recruitment.  The issue is the bloke who has suffocated the life out this club for the last 20 years.

The players aren't good enough.  Why?  Because they're cheap as intercourse!  Why did Holloway bring so many in?  Because not only are they not good enough, they're not physically capable of playing week-in-week-out.

Over the last few seasons we've brought in Glennon, Benson, Robson, Embleton...all good exciting young players that are highly rated and with their parent clubs keeping a watchful eye on them.  To the extent that Embleton was handed a new deal upon returning to Sunderland, Benson made his Premier League debut the other week - less than a year since he played his last game for us.

This season we've got lads in who are miles and miles down the pecking order at their clubs, simply put they're not as good as what we've previously had - therefore they'll be cheaper.

Morton spent last season on loan at FGR - 12 games.  Before that he was Bath City and Chippenham Town.  I'm no football snob and appreciate the value of players dropping down levels to enhance their schooling.  But in context that's the career path as someone who is 6 months older than Benson.

Preston - Alfreton Town last season.
Edwards - Bath City
Taylor - No loan spells.  He's one of 70 (yeah, I've just counted!)  Under 21 players registered as part of Wolves Premier League squad.  He's not busting any doors down there.
Windsor - Taunton Town

Our best player this year has been Edwards.  No disrespect to the lad, who I think could actually be a half decent player with coaching, but his end product is non-existent.  But in a normal season he would be someone who you might throw on for the last 10 minutes to cause a bit of upset with his pace.  He's now our main man.

Despite all the bluster about needing any potential buyers to pick up any shortfall, Fenty and this board have done exactly the opposite.  Sitting on their hands and letting the fans contribute to their begging bowl, once again reading the situation wrong, slashing the budget and with it losing players of quality and then expecting the manager to pull some rabbit out the hat.

It doesn't matter who the manager is, you can't produce a competitive squad with buttons.  Holloway has gambled with the high turnover because he didn't have the option of bringing in quality players who are fit and will stay fit.  There's a reason Scannell's here, because he's made of glass.  There's a reason Danny Rose with his relatively good pedigree is here, because he can't stay fit...

We've got rid of our assistant manager.  We can argue that it was because he disagreed with the situation all we like, but we got rid of him and we didn't replace.  It's penny pinching.  We've got limited coaching, quite evident by the lack of shape.  We're forever picking up niggles, knocks and strains which suggests our sports science set-up isn't good enough and/or we've got players who can't hack it (I imagine a combination of both)....what do people expect?

In the summer it was obvious and clear from very early on that no-one else was cutting their cloth as small as we were.  The board bang on about how they're there to pick up any slack if it's needed.  Well it was flipping needed this summer!   The irony of dismissing Schutes and co. because they didn't provide assurances how they would provide financial support as they sat congratulating themselves on making a 4p profit whilst the manager tries to make do with building a squad that is made up of cheap kids no-one else wants because they're not good enough and cheap oldies that no-one else wants because they're broken.

The club needed the board to do what they expected Schutes to do, put their hand in their pocket and help us out.  I never want the club to be anymore in debt to Fenty than it is and has been.  But don't flipping stand behind your puppet and tell us you're not selling the club because someone won't do the exact thing you've failed to do!

Go.  Just go.  Get out of the club.  Agree a plan to get your loans back (which were needed because of your sheer incompetence at running a football club) and let someone else have a go.  

That is it perfectly summed up. All I would add is that we must put it right in January. The first week in January, not towards the end when it is getting too late. The players we bring in must be used to playing league football and coping with the demands of having to WIN a game rather than just impressing coaches. The lack of crowds has made the problem worse.

We can attract those players, but we need to offer decent money and proper contracts.

Dire as things seem at the moment, relegation is still a long way away. We are only a third into the season and have plenty of time to make things right. Some players back from injury and a few canny moves in the transfer market could change things very rapidly. The time to start panicking is two thirds into the season if we are not improving. There are still seven teams below us in the form table. It's easy just to look at it from our point of view, but there are other teams struggling as badly as we are, some more so. All these teams will take points from one another and we are going to start playing a few of them in the coming weeks.

I'll start to get twitchy at the end of Jan if we are still fielding a side this inexperienced and ineffective.

Quoted from Theimperialcoroner

It’s not the manager it’s the flipping non chairman.
Whoever is in charge has to do absolutely everything on the cheap and it shows. Holloway went hunting for bargains because he had to. I’m not pretending there aren’t issues there, but he is not the root cause. Not by a long way.

Maybe but would it make any difference if Holloway was given money? FFS would you entrust him with money anyway, he's barmy mad as a box of frogs and his ideas are totally incomprehensible and unworkable to anyone we are likely to attract. That's probably why he hoped all his ex-players would want to play for him, they're probabl;y the only ones with any idea at all about what he's on about

I wouldn't risk him with the money to go and get the fish and chips frankly

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Well when I say splash the cash, I really mean normal contracts, signing league standard players. The sort of thing every other club does!

So you want him to inject cash and therefore increase the benign loan everyone is constantly bleating about?

Quoted from ginnywings

Dire as things seem at the moment, relegation is still a long way away. We are only a third into the season and have plenty of time to make things right. Some players back from injury and a few canny moves in the transfer market could change things very rapidly. The time to start panicking is two thirds into the season if we are not improving. There are still seven teams below us in the form table. It's easy just to look at it from our point of view, but there are other teams struggling as badly as we are, some more so. All these teams will take points from one another and we are going to start playing a few of them in the coming weeks.

I'll start to get twitchy at the end of Jan if we are still fielding a side this inexperienced and ineffective.

Please don't come on here with a reasoned and rational view!

you sum up my view of the situation perfectly

Quoted from ginnywings

Dire as things seem at the moment, relegation is still a long way away. We are only a third into the season and have plenty of time to make things right. Some players back from injury and a few canny moves in the transfer market could change things very rapidly. The time to start panicking is two thirds into the season if we are not improving. There are still seven teams below us in the form table. It's easy just to look at it from our point of view, but there are other teams struggling as badly as we are, some more so. All these teams will take points from one another and we are going to start playing a few of them in the coming weeks.

I'll start to get twitchy at the end of Jan if we are still fielding a side this inexperienced and ineffective.

But by the end of January we won’t be able to do anything about it. We’ll be relying on Holloway to get the recruitment right (having fouled it up in the first place), which arguably will be harder to do than over the summer.

The question is, do you trust Holloway to get it right? To be honest I don’t. I wouldn’t be surprised if he walked in January (in a similar manner to his Palace departure) after he’s failed to turn it around and struggled to recruit adequately. When the going gets tough, Holloway struggles to turn things around, as shown by his track record. He doesn’t fare well in relegation battles either.

The direction that we’re heading in is clear and if we’re to stand a chance of fighting off relegation, we need a manager that can solidify the defence and build from there. Since Holloway joined, we’ve shipped goals left, right and centre and we currently have the second worst goal difference in the league.

Quoted from davmariner

But by the end of January we won’t be able to do anything about it. We’ll be relying on Holloway to get the recruitment right (having fouled it up in the first place), which arguably will be harder to do than over the summer.

The question is, do you trust Holloway to get it right? To be honest I don’t. I wouldn’t be surprised if he walked in January (in a similar manner to his Palace departure) after he’s failed to turn it around and struggled to recruit adequately. When the going gets tough, Holloway struggles to turn things around, as shown by his track record. He doesn’t fare well in relegation battles either.

The direction that we’re heading in is clear and if we’re to stand a chance of fighting off relegation, we need a manager that can solidify the defence and build from there. Since Holloway joined, we’ve shipped goals left, right and centre and we currently have the second worst goal difference in the league.

Let’s not forget he got it right last January and turned us from a fairly poor team into on playing some decent stuff and winning.

Quoted from Mikey_345

Let’s not forget he got it right last January and turned us from a fairly poor team into on playing some decent stuff and winning.

With largely someone else’s team.

Let’s not forget the season before he nearly got us relegated, Slade did well in the final few games of the season. But similarly to Holloway, in his first full season, his recruitment was poor and tactics all over the place.

Quoted from davmariner

But by the end of January we won’t be able to do anything about it. We’ll be relying on Holloway to get the recruitment right (having fouled it up in the first place), which arguably will be harder to do than over the summer.

The question is, do you trust Holloway to get it right? To be honest I don’t. I wouldn’t be surprised if he walked in January (in a similar manner to his Palace departure) after he’s failed to turn it around and struggled to recruit adequately. When the going gets tough, Holloway struggles to turn things around, as shown by his track record. He doesn’t fare well in relegation battles either.

The direction that we’re heading in is clear and if we’re to stand a chance of fighting off relegation, we need a manager that can solidify the defence and build from there. Since Holloway joined, we’ve shipped goals left, right and centre and we currently have the second worst goal difference in the league.

Yep, he could fail, but the operative word is could. He could also bring in a Billy Clarke and Josh Benson like he did previously. I'm not convinced that the recruitment in the summer was entirely the fault of IH. It's clear the players he wanted didn't fancy the covid clause and the players we should have kept were let go too easily and with short sightedness. We got it wrong, he's admitted that much. I think he can still put it right but appreciate others have lost faith. Years and years of failure has made us a pessimistic fan base, fearing the worst.

One thing I do know is changing managers hasn't worked in the past and any other manager would have the same problems to contend with, as well as having to get up to speed with everything else.

Quoted from Ipswin

So you want him to inject cash and therefore increase the benign loan everyone is constantly bleating about?

Its either that or be relegated, so yes!

Quoted from davmariner

With largely someone else’s team.

Let’s not forget the season before he nearly got us relegated, Slade did well in the final few games of the season. But similarly to Holloway, in his first full season, his recruitment was poor and tactics all over the place.

But Slade inherited a good enough squad the year before.

Holloway didn’t and brought in Clarke, Benson, Grandin and Glennon and turned around what was already here. The comparison to slade is Miles off

Look at the win ratios. Holloway is rapidly approaching Slade's figure. Football under Jolley was boring and defensive but ultimately we won more games, and probably had more attempts on goal as well.

Bignot 33.3%
Slade 25.6%
Jolley 36.7%
Holloway 29.4%

Can we even inject cash with a salary cap? Suppose we could use cash to pay off contracts and free up some budget that way. Don't think we can pay transfer fees with the Prem money that's coming our way, so that's out. As if we would pay a fee for anyone anyway.

I could count the quality players on one hand almost.

I think Mckeown, Pollock, hendrie, rose and scannel are our only real class players

They’ve not all shown it consistently but the rest are rough and not a top end of the table quality

Quoted from GrimRob

Look at the win ratios. Holloway is rapidly approaching Slade's figure. Football under Jolley was boring and defensive but ultimately we won more games, and probably had more attempts on goal as well.

Bignot 33.3%
Slade 25.6%
Jolley 36.7%
Holloway 29.4%

That is completely meaningless isn't it? What was Ollies win ratio last season, when he had a normal squad, with players he added without ludicrous covid clauses getting in the way? Give the bloke a chance.

We have been completely hamstrung by events. We made the wrong decisions but we will have to put them right in the January window.

I would say the next two games will tell us everything we need to know about the possible outcome this season - lose them both and we’re doomed. Win one, there may be some hope. 4 points or more and we’ll all be on the happy bus again.....

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

That is completely meaningless isn't it? What was Ollies win ratio last season, when he had a normal squad, with players he added without ludicrous covid clauses getting in the way? Give the bloke a chance.

We have been completely hamstrung by events. We made the wrong decisions but we will have to put them right in the January window.

Absolutely this.

How many windows have they all had and I’m pretty sure only one of those managers had his squad decimated due to a global pandemic and the club taking the decision not to renew contracts.

Slade and Bignot also inherited fairly strong teams. Not promotion challenging ones but definitely comfortable mid table teams. How many losses had we had when Ollie came in?

Quoted from Mikey_345

But Slade inherited a good enough squad the year before.

Holloway didn’t and brought in Clarke, Benson, Grandin and Glennon and turned around what was already here. The comparison to slade is Miles off

And his recruitment this season has turned us into a far worse team than last season.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

That is completely meaningless isn't it? What was Ollies win ratio last season, when he had a normal squad, with players he added without ludicrous covid clauses getting in the way? Give the bloke a chance.

We have been completely hamstrung by events. We made the wrong decisions but we will have to put them right in the January window.

The covid clauses didn't make him sign a bewildering number of players and adopt a style of play which is completely unsuitable to the ones we have. Not only that but he is still presenting the style of play as an end in itself and appears to have completely buried his head in the sand as to our dire form and its consequences. So yes, we have made the wrong decisions, but continue to do so and are committed to a ludicrous plan that never made any sense in the first place.

Quoted from ginnywings

Yep, he could fail, but the operative word is could. He could also bring in a Billy Clarke and Josh Benson like he did previously. I'm not convinced that the recruitment in the summer was entirely the fault of IH. It's clear the players he wanted didn't fancy the covid clause and the players we should have kept were let go too easily and with short sightedness. We got it wrong, he's admitted that much. I think he can still put it right but appreciate others have lost faith. Years and years of failure has made us a pessimistic fan base, fearing the worst.

One thing I do know is changing managers hasn't worked in the past and any other manager would have the same problems to contend with, as well as having to get up to speed with everything else.

That's not true though is it.

We were crap under Mike Newell and though he wasn't sacked we would have been relegated but for Luton's points deduction.

We didn't sack Woods and we were relegated.

We sacked Slade when we were playing crap and looking likely to be relegated and Jolley kept us up.

I'm not suggesting IH should be sacked but we can't go on living on his past record for too much longer.

It is a risk whichever way the club wants to go.

Quoted from GrimRob

The covid clauses didn't make him sign a bewildering number of players and adopt a style of play which is completely unsuitable to the ones we have. Not only that but he is still presenting the style of play as an end in itself and appears to have completely buried his head in the sand as to our dire form and its consequences. So yes, we have made the wrong decisions, but continue to do so and are committed to a ludicrous plan that never made any sense in the first place.

I have to agree with this and I do wonder does IH really know what he is doing in terms of how we should play in the lower reaches of League 2 with the players we have got.

He was complaining about McKeown taking risks by playing short ball passes out of the penalty area especially in the Dagenham game, he now suggests that he was left out because he was hitting the longer ball too often 🙄

Quoted from arryarryarry

I have to agree with this and I do wonder does IH really know what he is doing in terms of how we should play in the lower reaches of League 2 with the players we have got.

He was complaining about McKeown taking risks by playing short ball passes out of the penalty area especially in the Dagenham game, he now suggests that he was left out because he was hitting the longer ball too often 🙄

Yes, I did find that comment a little odd. Particularly when every team is pressing us high knowing that we try to play it out and make mistakes. IH might not have been so bothered by the long balls if they actually went within 10 yards of one of our players. Distribution is a weakness of Macca, but that game was the worst I've ever seen from him.

Quoted from arryarryarry

And his recruitment this season has turned us into a far worse team than last season.

Haven’t denied that but pointing out he’s proven he can do it and to some extent I believe the reason we have this squad is the restrictions the board (fenty) have obviously put him under with finances.

How many other teams have Covoid Clauses.

Quoted from Mikey_345

Haven’t denied that but pointing out he’s proven he can do it and to some extent I believe the reason we have this squad is the restrictions the board (fenty) have obviously put him under with finances.

I understand the restrictions on the budget but why sign so many cheap players that haven't been anywhere near the first team. I'm not John Fenty's biggest fan but are you suggesting that was his doing?

Quoted from friskneymariner

How many other teams have Covoid Clauses.

I guess we don't know the answer, but since the clauses were written by the EFL and all clubs were advised to incorporate them into new contracts, it seems ridiculous to hand out more money to clubs that didn't follow their advice because these clubs have a greater need than the ones that took their advice.

I can only comment on the handful of games I've watched this season, but we re a very poor side, it's hard to think of a worse one since the side that got us relegated from the football league. Unfortunately this squad wouldn't be good enough at Clee Town's level, so unless there's a massive change in January this squad will more than likely take us down...UTM

Quoted from arryarryarry

I understand the restrictions on the budget but why sign so many cheap players that haven't been anywhere near the first team. I'm not John Fenty's biggest fan but are you suggesting that was his doing?

Not directly. But you reap what you sow and we’ve seen this story more times than I care to remember.

We are a team of learners, no talent non league kids learning to play against wiser more skillful men, assistant coach learning coaching from a manager who's learning managing at a level where gumption beats bullshit, and a non chairman who's still learning how to run a club successfully. Where do we go from here?it  is as usual down to one man and his money, past seasons show there will be changes from the manager downwards and its because were not the worst yet, we will just survive.