Why?

I don't know much about football. Only been watching it for 50 odd years and coaching for some of that. Mr Hurst doesn't rate us supporters as having much knowledge about the game either apparently.

Last week against Southport I understood why he chose a team to play like last year. Tight at the back and make use of the space the home team gives you. An early goal helps a lot by bringing them out even further. I understand that. Good tactics away from home and I understand why Bogle needed a bit of a lesson and Amond was probably still carrying a bit of an injury. The team selection was the best he could do in the circumstances and it worked, especially as Southport were so inept in the extreme at the back.

But why? Why oh why did he pick an away team to play a home game against a side we needed to beat?

I may not know a lot about football by Mr Hurst's exalted standards but I do know what a barmy team selection looks like and I do know that waiting until the last 10 minutes to get your best 2 strikers together on the park is bordering on the clueless.

Net result of his stubborness - one point gained by FGR, two points lost to GTFC, more pressure on the team for Tuesday. Crazy.

I thought that Pittman and Tomlinson did OK today. The problem today wasn't so much with them as the quality of the service which they received (or more precisely didn't receive at all in the first half). Crossing and final passes not nearly good enough most of the time.

I'd certainly have given Bogle at least another ten minutes in the second half though.

Not a good performance from us in general and we can certainly play a lot better than that regardless of who we have up front.

If he'd have changed the team and lost we'd all be slatng him now for changing a side that had won 4-0 away the previous week! The guy can't win!!

Quoted from Mighty_Mariner

If he'd have changed the team and lost we'd all be slatng him now for changing a side that had won 4-0 away the previous week! The guy can't win!!

Exactly.

Paul just cant win  

I haven't seen the performance today so you could argue that I'm not in a position to have much of an opinion but I too was very disappointed in the team selection.
For me, selecting a non scoring loanee ahead of our two top scorers, both of whom have done brilliantly overall on balance is very hard to understand and accept, and sends out the wrong message for me. Equally - why we don't try to get Arnold or even Marshall into the team is equally perplexing.

The aftermath interview shed no light really, it being fairly anodyne, in both questions and answers. I know that a draw with the leaders is hardly a disaster, but Hurst really does frustrate me at times.

"Ok" and Hurst sitting on his hands isn't going to get us atomically promoted.

Tomlinson for all his huff and puff, isn't good enough.

You don't enter a donkey into a high profile race, only an behind would do that.

So what we're saying is..... If Paul had selected Arnold, Bogle and Amond and we'd lost then we'd all be praising him for he correct team selection??

What message would that send to the team that you can win 4-0 but still be dropped the following week?

If anyone thinks PH picks a team he doesn't think can win the game then they're delusional!!!! He has more on the line than any of us do to ensure Grimsby Town are successful!

Quoted from chaos33

For me, selecting a non scoring loanee ahead of our two two top scorers, both of whom have done brilliantly overall on balance is very hard to understand and accept, and sends out the wrong message for me. Equally - why we don't try to get Arnold or even Marshall into the team is equally perplexing.

Problem is that neither Bogle nor Amond is any good at leading the line. If we're going to play with those two up front, we need to change the way we play, because we can't just rely on Monkhouse to win all the headers. I'm less than convinced our midfield is good enough at passing to play the ball into feet often enough for the Bogle/Amond partnership to be effective, especially against the better defences of the top teams.

His remit is play off's which are easily achievable for a club our size in this league. Tomlinson didn't look like he would score today even if we were still playing now.

When it was obvious it wasn't working Hurst should have spiced it up around the 60 minutes mark. Pittman didn't deserve to be subbed.

Quoted from Mighty_Mariner

If he'd have changed the team and lost we'd all be slatng him now for changing a side that had won 4-0 away the previous week! The guy can't win!!

If he had changed the team to include the best striking partnership the club has and it didn't work, I think people would more likely have blamed the players more than the manager.

His selection last week was for an away game and was to some extent forced on him. This week it was entirely his own choice so I'm afraid he has to carry the can for that one.

Agreed.

This punting of the ball up to Monkhouse is getting tiresome now.  We did it the 2 previous season with Lenny, and it didnt work, so why persist with a game plan like that?  When we play the ball on the floor, we outplay most teams.  Something Hurst should look at

We were doing that weren't we - passing it. It looked great in pre season and early season, and we were scoring goals even though we were missing chances. Are we deviating from this now?
I haven't seen the game today, but Monkhouse has been very lucky to keep his place for me - he must have had 4 or 5 consecutive very average performances. Meanwhile, we've got cracking players who can't get in the team, or who are given 10-20 minutes to do something.

Quoted from Mighty_Mariner

So what we're saying is..... If Paul had selected Arnold, Bogle and Amond and we'd lost then we'd all be praising him for he correct team selection??

What message would that send to the team that you can win 4-0 but still be dropped the following week?

If anyone thinks PH picks a team he doesn't think can win the game then they're delusional!!!! He has more on the line than any of us do to ensure Grimsby Town are successful!

This sentence sums it up for me. Anybody who says the "Why change a winning team" wouldn't have been trotted out is either delusional or a hypocrite...

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

If he had changed the team to include the best striking partnership the club has and it didn't work, I think people would more likely have blamed the players more than the manager.

His selection last week was for an away game and was to some extent forced on him. This week it was entirely his own choice so I'm afraid he has to carry the can for that one.

Sorry Ron but you make the assumption that all posters on here are as balanced as you are in your opinions. The hatred for Hurst in some quarters on here knows no bounds

Quoted from barralad

Sorry Ron but you make the assumption that all posters on here are as balanced as you are in your opinions. The hatred for Hurst in some quarters on here knows no bounds

Turn it the other way too

The love for Hurst in some quarters on here knows no bounds

Yeah I agree Barra and it does spoil the debate. However, I would say that an away game at Southport and a home game with FGR are very different challenges, and you'd expect the manager to pick and set up the side accordingly. I think it's an oversimplification when people talk about 'not changing a winning team'.

I agree with your comments on another thread about JPP - fully deserved to keep his place and proved that with another goal, but I am very frustrated by the selection of Tomlinson - a loan player that you could even argue we don't actually need ahead of Bogle or Amond, both of whom have been fantastic for us so far. And, the favouritism shown to Monkhouse (I know you don't agree), at the expense of Marshall or Arnold. I'm also pretty sick of late substitutions, especially when it's fairly evident that the original selection isn't quite working.
I do think that Hurst's pigheadedness and fundamentally cautious approach does cost us vital points at times. Just an opinion. Last week he got it right. Maybe today he didn't.

Quoted from ackomariner

Turn it the other way too

The love for Hurst in some quarters on here knows no bounds

  

Monkhouse is shocking

Quoted from ackomariner

Turn it the other way too

The love for Hurst in some quarters on here knows no bounds

Well I've read just about everything on here tonight (sad but at my age...) and whilst there has been some criticism from a lot of people who were at the game of the manager's role in today's events who I'd class as being firmly in the pro-Hurst camp, the usual subjects cannot find it within themselves to say anything remotely positive about the manager.

Monkhouse is not shocking mate, he's a good footballer, but he doesn't earn his place on merit, and that's not his fault. Other players turn in an average or poor game or two - they will be replaced, but not him it seems. I know he and Hurst go back a way, but I don't think it's right for the team. Let's be fair though, he's not shocking is he. He's proven and he was playing really well early season.

I do not hate Hurst nor do I love him,

He just keeps confusing me with his selections.

Quoted from chaos33

Yeah I agree Barra and it does spoil the debate. However, I would say that an away game at Southport and a home game with FGR are very different challenges, and you'd expect the manager to pick and set up the side accordingly. I think it's an oversimplification when people talk about 'not changing a winning team'.

I agree with your comments on another thread about JPP - fully deserved to keep his place and proved that with another goal, but I am very frustrated by the selection of Tomlinson - a loan player that you could even argue we don't actually need ahead of Bogle or Amond, both of whom have been fantastic for us so far. And, the favouritism shown to Monkhouse (I know you don't agree), at the expense of Marshall or Arnold. I'm also pretty sick of late substitutions, especially when it's fairly evident that the original selection isn't quite working.
I do think that Hurst's pigheadedness and fundamentally cautious approach does cost us vital points at times. Just an opinion. Last week he got it right. Maybe today he didn't.

I think he may have selected Mackreth today for the better defensive cover he gives us to say, Marshall. I fully accept that doesn't explain why he played him last week as well!! As I said in the Just Back thread I'd play Marshall from the start against Gateshead for his attacking prowess although that will put more pressure on Disley and Clay to defend which may affect the service to whoever is picked to play up front. Who'd be a manager.

The thing is, Hurst has changed a winning team before.

I was listening to Radio Humberside on the way to the game and Buckley was saying we should be playing our best team for a game against the team who are top of the league. Send your best team out and let them show you why that's your best team.

Only reason why I can think of not starting Omar and Amond was resting them for Tuesday.Pitman done ok today and Tomlinson was a worker who in fairness did try to make some positive runs into their box.

Yeah good points Barra. Given that Gateshead are likely to play Paddy left mid I'd be tempted to bring back Arnold for Mackreth and try to suck Paddy in to defending /helping his full back which is not really his game and nullifies his attacking threat. Gateshead aren't all that special defensively but can obviously score goals, so we'll need some sort of balance. Interesting to note that Aswad Thomas, playing at wing back scored for Dover against them today. They also have another very good midfield player in Josh Gillies. We can't afford to let them get on the ball in midfield and dictate play, especially as we lack that kind of a player in there ourselves.

Tempting to go Arnold and Marshall on both wings, but I suspect he'll stick with Monkhouse for his solidity and experience.
Whatever he does in midfield, I'd really like to see Bogle or Amond come in to partner JPP. Probably Bogle as I think he and JPP have looked very dangerous together previously.

what is it with Hurst and his loanee's? He's like a big kid with his new toy when he gets one in, I thought the whole idea of a loan was to bring in as cover for positions we have been thin on like central midfield! After all, this according to Hurst is his strongest squad (says this every year) so why does he insist on dropping our best players for average at best players who can't even get in to their own teams, Tomilinson shouldn't of even made the bench today we have at least four players that should of been put before him, if I was Amound or Bogle today I'd be drunk of with Hurst it's disrespectful and disloyal to his own team.

Quoted from jonnyboy82

Exactly.

Paul just cant win  

7 draws and 2 defeats in 14. So 5 wins. Almost right Jonny!

"Paul can't win enough" would be more correct.

Quoted from chaos33

Yeah good points Barra. Given that Gateshead are likely to play Paddy left mid I'd be tempted to bring back Arnold for Mackreth and try to suck Paddy in to defending /helping his full back which is not really his game and nullifies his attacking threat. Gateshead aren't all that special defensively but can obviously score goals, so we'll need some sort of balance. Interesting to note that Aswad Thomas, playing in midfield scored for Dover against them today. They also have another very good midfield player in Josh Gillies, although not sure if he's fit. We can't afford to let them get on the ball in midfield and dictate play, especially as we lack that kind of a player in there ourselves.

Tempting to go Arnold and Marshall on both wings, but I suspect he'll stick with Monkhouse for his solidity and experience.
Whatever he does in midfield, I'd really like to see Bogle or Amond come in to partner JPP. Probably Bogle as I think he and JPP have looked very dangerous together previously.

JPP 3 goals in 4 games and popping up in the right places. Love Podge intelligent and hard working but Omar does worry defenders agree about Marshall and Arnold, Monkhouse is not a winger despite PH trying to convince us all he is and though Jack is a good lad who plays with a smile on his face and has a great rapport with the fans he could not cross a pools coupon at the moment.

Surely you play your top strikers against top teams and they are ..........

Quoted from chaos33

We were doing that weren't we - passing it. It looked great in pre season and early season, and we were scoring goals even though we were missing chances. Are we deviating from this now?
I haven't seen the game today, but Monkhouse has been very lucky to keep his place for me - he must have had 4 or 5 consecutive very average performances. Meanwhile, we've got cracking players who can't get in the team, or who are given 10-20 minutes to do something.

This

Quoted from HertsGTFC

JPP 3 goals in 4 games and popping up in the right places. Love Podge intelligent and hard working but Omar does worry defenders agree about Marshall and Arnold, Monkhouse is not a winger despite PH trying to convince us all he is and though Jack is a good lad who plays with a smile on his face and has a great rapport with the fans he could not cross a pools coupon at the moment.

Great line..

Just a word on this "don't change a winning side" lark. For one thing Hurst has previously changed winning teams. For another, a manager who wants to win games (as opposed to one who wants to make sure he doesn't lose them) should always put out his best side.

I know I'm always harking back to the good old days but this situation did bring to mind what Tim Ward did in the 1961-2 season when Cliff Portwood was injured. He brought in Willie Purvis who older fans will remember was a big bustler in the Tommy Briggs mould. He played 4 or 5 games, scored a couple of goals and the team won about 3 of the games. But, as soon as Portwood was fit he came straight back in and the side ran through to promotion with Portwood's skills and Rafferty's goals leading the way.

I am certain we can find similar examples from the Booth & Buckley eras too. When Drinkell was injured and his replacement Lund scored, was Lund picked when Drinkell recovered? The point being that here is a universal historical truth , a promotion seeking manager should know who his best players are and always play them if the side is to gel as a team. He should only replace them one by one on loss of form or injury - letting other sides do the worrying about them and not chopping and changing to suit the "maybe" strengths of an opposition.

Far from worrying about what a change would do to the confidence of a reserve and a loanee to be dropped after a win, surely a good manager would be thinking about the best way to gel a partnership to get the best performances from his best two strikers.

Ron,
        Cliff Portwood was class.

        Didn't he become a professional singer after his footballing days?

Quoted from cannylad68

Ron,
        Cliff Portwood was class.

        Didn't he become a professional singer after his footballing days?

Yes he went to South Africa and made a good living as a cabaret singer. He was quick footed as a footballer but I don't know if he was a dancer though!

Ron,
        Which  footballer capped by England appeared at the Palladium as a singer whilst still in his playing days?

Quoted from cannylad68

Ron,
        Which  footballer capped by England appeared at the Palladium as a singer whilst still in his playing days?

Not certain but maybe Hoddle & Waddle or more likely Gazza. I think Gazza could have appeared with Lindisfarne.

Colin Grainger.

Left winger for Sunderland.

Having just arrived home from my weekend away at a family gathering, i didn't see or hear a commentary of the game, so not much input to add other than again, on the face of it, a draw against the leagues leading side isn't a disaster, as the draw at Wrexham wasn't. The big picture though is that we are again drawing way too many games and struggling to beat sides at BP. So for me, nothing much has changed from last season, other than we now have a better selection of strikers to choose from. The fact that Hurst decides not to use them despite us having failed to turn 50% of our games from draws to wins, is really baffling. 7 games unbeaten doesn't really tell the whole story. Would rather we lost a few if we won a few with more points gained.

The upside is that the league is settling down now and some of the early front runners are having dodgy spells. FGR, Wrexham and Eastleigh have all gone off the boil in recent weeks, while others are having a bit of a purple patch. We will have our own winning run at some point and we are not too far off the top to close the gap quite quickly.

So far this season, underwhelmed but not despairing just yet.

Quoted from ginnywings

Having just arrived home from my weekend away at a family gathering, i didn't see or hear a commentary of the game, so not much input to add other than again, on the face of it, a draw against the leagues leading side isn't a disaster, as the draw at Wrexham wasn't. The big picture though is that we are again drawing way too many games and struggling to beat sides at BP. So for me, nothing much has changed from last season, other than we now have a better selection of strikers to choose from. The fact that Hurst decides not to use them despite us having failed to turn 50% of our games from draws to wins, is really baffling. 7 games unbeaten doesn't really tell the whole story. Would rather we lost a few if we won a few with more points gained.

The upside is that the league is settling down now and some of the early front runners are having dodgy spells. FGR, Wrexham and Eastleigh have all gone off the boil in recent weeks, while others are having a bit of a purple patch. We will have our own winning run at some point and we are not too far off the top to close the gap quite quickly.

So far this season, underwhelmed but not despairing just yet.

My position exactly. The team that worries me most is Cheltenham.

Quoted from mariner91

My position exactly. The team that worries me most is Cheltenham.

Yes me too , quietly adapted to this division.  Thought they might struggle  but it hasn't happened , yet !

Quoted from ginnywings

Having just arrived home from my weekend away at a family gathering, i didn't see or hear a commentary of the game, so not much input to add other than again, on the face of it, a draw against the leagues leading side isn't a disaster, as the draw at Wrexham wasn't. The big picture though is that we are again drawing way too many games and struggling to beat sides at BP. So for me, nothing much has changed from last season, other than we now have a better selection of strikers to choose from. The fact that Hurst decides not to use them despite us having failed to turn 50% of our games from draws to wins, is really baffling. 7 games unbeaten doesn't really tell the whole story. Would rather we lost a few if we won a few with more points gained.

The upside is that the league is settling down now and some of the early front runners are having dodgy spells. FGR, Wrexham and Eastleigh have all gone off the boil in recent weeks, while others are having a bit of a purple patch. We will have our own winning run at some point and we are not too far off the top to close the gap quite quickly.

So far this season, underwhelmed but not despairing just yet.

I must say Ginny  I'm on the same wave length as yourself on this one . The main threats are the ones we knew FGR  Wrexham Cheltenham Eastleigh,  plus the surprise  name.   We will be there at the end but it's the disappointing way we are getting there .Tuesday night against the mighty gateshead will , for some be make or break .

Quoted from DocTower

Yes me too , quietly adapted to this division.  Thought they might struggle  but it hasn't happened , yet !

That's because they have an experienced manager who knows what he is doing,

Just when I think Hurst has learnt not to do certain things( like drop his goalscorers )

He does it again.

Quoted from DocTower

I must say Ginny  I'm on the same wave length as yourself on this one . The main threats are the ones we knew FGR  Wrexham Cheltenham Eastleigh,  plus the surprise  name.   We will be there at the end but it's the disappointing way we are getting there .Tuesday night against the mighty gateshead will , for some be make or break .

Eastleigh? They're 11th. I'm disappointed we only have 22 points but I am not worried at this stage. There is no way the current table will look like the one come the end of the season. I mean, Braintree and Dover are 5th and 6th, really?

Pretty incredible that Bromley have a striker averaging almost a goal a game at the moment as well.

Quoted from Grantley

Eastleigh? They're 11th. I'm disappointed we only have 22 points but I am not worried at this stage. There is no way the current table will look like the one come the end of the season. I mean, Braintree and Dover are 5th and 6th, really?

Table doesn't lie....so they're there on merit

Quoted from Grantley

Eastleigh? They're 11th. I'm disappointed we only have 22 points but I am not worried at this stage. There is no way the current table will look like the one come the end of the season. I mean, Braintree and Dover are 5th and 6th, really?

Eastleigh have money and will be able to do what FGR  are doing  , as for Braintree and Dover . You always get the surprise package , the team that has a good run , the rub of the green playing the opposition at the right time and above all luck . Cream always rises to the top , Parkin was full fat and he scored a good goal  .

Quoted from grimsby pete

That's because they have an experienced manager who knows what he is doing,

Just when I think Hurst has learnt not to do certain things( like drop his goalscorers )

He does it again.

Hello Pete , I always try to be constructive when I post but I can see where your coming from .  As frustrating as it is its not the first or last time that the fans will be left scratch their heads .  We don't know what goes on behind closed doors but if I were being dropped for no apparent  reason I would be looking to play elsewhere.  That is my fear for the players we have .

Quoted from DocTower

Hello Pete , I always try to be constructive when I post but I can see where your coming from .  As frustrating as it is its not the first or last time that the fans will be left scratch their heads .  We don't know what goes on behind closed doors but if I were being dropped for no apparent  reason I would be looking to play elsewhere.  That is my fear for the players we have .

Well he has made mistakes in the past and learnt from them,

Lets hope he has learnt this time,

When you have got 2 of the top scorers in the division you might rest one of them now and again,

BUT

You do not drop both of them. imho