How Far Have We Come..........

in the past three seasons !!!   I really don't know to be honest.  I am certainly not anti-Hurst at all, but still wonder how the likes of Macclesfield with hardly any fans and a very small budget have performed not far short of us over the past few seasons.  Is it the fact that so many teams are cannon fodder in this league that we win so many games which possibly distorts PH's achievements and makes him possibly look better than he actually is.  Given a choice between PH and an established manager with pedigree such as Gary Johnson, I would certainly opt for the latter.  If we do not go up this season, I personally would make a change at managerial level.  Not because PH has done a bad job, but more because things will probably need freshening up.  On a plus note crowds have been awesome this season, so that massively goes in PH's favour.  Sadly sometimes certain things in life do not happen, and maybe success and promotion for GTFC is not meant to be for PH.  I would love to see us go up this season, but if we don't, then Fenty has a huge decision to make for the start of the 2016-2017 season.  We have to get back where we belong ASAP.

UTM

We have much better players than 3 years ago. That side was McKeown, Hatton, Pearson, Miller, Thomas, Colbeck, Diz, Niven, Marshall, Cook, Hannah. No we have players such as Arnold, Podge, Bogle and SP can't get in the side. You can't criticise Hurst on the recruitment front. Hurst' man management also seems to be good. You never here of any rumblings or unrest. Hurst' downfall is possibly his in game management, sometimes we need an inspired substitution, not just a player, but maybe a formation change too. We also never seem to be able to dig out results when we play poorly, like Saturday. But Cheltenham and Forest Green can. Cheltenham did courtesy of Aswad Thomas. I know we got a one nil against Kiddy but apart from that we haven't done that this season or before that. If we don't go up I would stick with Hurst as I believe persistence will eventually win through so long as Hurst improves these little things I've suggested.

Great post
Being ultra critical the only criteria to judge Hurst on is promotion - at the moment he has failed, obviously
I like Hurst the man a lot - full of passion, integrity and extremely dignified in the face of criticism
He has brought in players with a desire to play for GTFC, created great club spirit, got his team to play some really good stuff this season and very nearly got us promoted last season...it makes me proud to support a great club.
So what's not to be happy about?

Just a feeling that with another manager we might take the extra step to glory?

Sack Hurst at end of season...get next appointment hopelessly wrong... and it might be a whole lot worse

I've got a mate, season ticket holder, who is convinced PH is the nearly man and we should move on... who knows?

I am 99% certain we won;t get the automatic spot - incidentally how many managers have that sort of pressure?
Chasing FGR down would be hard enough let alone two clubs as we have to do

Cool heads, calm thinking needed before a decision is made...and I haven't got a clue!

Stick with Hurst so long as we always in with a sniff of the title and nailed on for playoffs, no matter how long it takes.

Sorry but fenty doesnt have a hard decision to make if we dont go up..

Its quite a straight forward one to make and it involves thanks for the hard work and good luck at your new club.

Quoted from Mariner_09

We have much better players than 3 years ago. That side was McKeown, Hatton, Pearson, Miller, Thomas, Colbeck, Diz, Niven, Marshall, Cook, Hannah. No we have players such as Arnold, Podge, Bogle and SP can't get in the side. You can't criticise Hurst on the recruitment front. Hurst' man management also seems to be good. You never here of any rumblings or unrest. Hurst' downfall is possibly his in game management, sometimes we need an inspired substitution, not just a player, but maybe a formation change too. We also never seem to be able to dig out results when we play poorly, like Saturday. But Cheltenham and Forest Green can. Cheltenham did courtesy of Aswad Thomas. I know we got a one nil against Kiddy but apart from that we haven't done that this season or before that. If we don't go up I would stick with Hurst as I believe persistence will eventually win through so long as Hurst improves these little things I've suggested.

Yet here we are looking like automatic promotion has passed us by again.

Quoted from Rik e B

Stick with Hurst so long as we always in with a sniff of the title and nailed on for playoffs, no matter how long it takes.

Personally I would like to see us promoted before I shuffle off this mortal coil.

The "we have better players than last year" line gets trotted out every year.

No doubt it will next year whatever division we are in. People always favour current players over those who have gone on to pastures new.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Personally I would like to see us promoted before I shuffle off this mortal coil.

And as for a new stadium that seems to be dead in the water again. I see Eastleigh and now Torquay are in talks over moving to a new stadium.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Personally I would like to see us promoted before I shuffle off this mortal coil.

Stick with PH then! We'll always be challenging near the top with a good chance of going up. Every season we have probably around a 1 in 4 chance of going up with him in charge I reckon - and the current budget or similar. Doubt many could better that

Quoted from GrimRob

Stick with PH then! We'll always be challenging near the top with a good chance of going up. Every season we have probably around a 1 in 4 chance of going up with him in charge I reckon.

A chance of going up? Sorry, not good enough. Fenty's decisions brought us down here, now he has to make the choices and investment to get us back. I'm sure Paul Hurst is a cracking bloke but he just doesn't seem to be hard enough - we start too slowly in every 45 minutes of football we play and we only ever make decisions with 20 minutes to go. He's in the last chance saloon for me.

If there was a magic wand you could wave it would have been waved by now. All your can do is give yourself a good. chance every season which with the current setup we are doing. We are talking about something extremely hard to do and it's getting harder all the time as other richer clubs enter the division from above and below.

How far have we come?

Not bloody far enough yet!

Quoted from GrimRob

If there was a magic wand you could wave it would have been waved by now. All your can do is give yourself a good. chance every season which with the current setup we are doing. We are talking about something extremely hard to do and it's getting harder all the time as other richer clubs enter the division from above and below.

It's all about opinions isn't it. I'm not going to apologise for banging on about Fenty's legacy - which rather than being a new stadium currently stands as being the only chairman in our history to take us out of the league.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

It's all about opinions isn't it. I'm not going to apologise for banging on about Fenty's legacy - which rather than being a new stadium currently stands as being the only chairman in our history to take us out of the league.

It was never likely to happen though for most of our history when it was virtually impossible to get relegated. There has only been about 30 years when it was possible to get relegated with one bad season. There has also been a huge influx of towns where football was not played until recently which has forced out a lot of traditional teams like us - Stevenage who replaced us being a prime example. The chances are whoever had been chairman we'd have at very least flirted with relegation during the last 30 years.

Quoted from GrimRob

It was never likely to happen though for most of our history when it was virtually impossible to get relegated. There has only been about 30 years when it was possible to get relegated with one bad season. There has also been a huge influx of towns where football was not played until recently which has forced out a lot of traditional teams like us - Stevenage who replaced us being a prime example. The chances are whoever had been chairman we'd have at very least flirted with relegation during the last 30 years.

Of all of the excuses, and there have been many, for the decade of bad decisions, benign loans etc, that is probably one of the worst. We have dropped further down the football ladder than anyone with the exception of Darlington and Stockport. Given your argument therefore, can you explain why the likes of Scunthorpe, Rotherham, Bury and Rochdale are where they are in comparison?

In the last 45 years (maybe longer but I'm not old enough to know) we have been champions in a league twice - once under Lawrie Mac and once under George Kerr.  Pre Hurst we had two play off campaigns, winning one under Buckley and beaten finalists under Slade.

Under Hurst, we have had three successive finishes in the play offs and probably a fourth this season unless things go really bad from here.  Each season the side has got stronger.

Against Newport we never looked like reaching Wembley.  Against Gateshead we should have gone to Wembley - the less said about that second leg the better.  Last season we out played the favourites for most of the game and lost on a penalty kick against a team now challenging for promotion in L2.

I'm disappointed that we are 'only' third but I am also proud that the club and the team has a great spirit on and off the pitch.

I don't recall any manager in recent history who has achieved consistently strong results over 4 years.

I also observe many clubs who come down into non league and do far far worse than us.

Maybe if we don't go up this season, then it's time to 'freshen it up' but no way will I ever call Hurst a failure.  

I have followed Town since George Kerr took the reins and PH is up there as one of the best managers in my time.  If he gets us out of this league he will have achieved one of the hardest tasks in English football and deserves to be a Town legend.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

A chance of going up? Sorry, not good enough. Fenty's decisions brought us down here, now he has to make the choices and investment to get us back. I'm sure Paul Hurst is a cracking bloke but he just doesn't seem to be hard enough - we start too slowly in every 45 minutes of football we play and we only ever make decisions with 20 minutes to go. He's in the last chance saloon for me.

The difficulty is quantifying what is meant by investment. VGR have chucked money at it for a couple of seasons and by most measures are no better off than we are with our steady approach. Whilst I'll readily accept that a quick sweep with a new broom could be exactly what we are needing there are no guarantees and at this level there are plenty of examples to show that regular sackings of managers doesn't work.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Of all of the excuses, and there have been many, for the decade of bad decisions, benign loans etc, that is probably one of the worst. We have dropped further down the football ladder than anyone with the exception of Darlington and Stockport. Given your argument therefore, can you explain why the likes of Scunthorpe, Rotherham, Bury and Rochdale are where they are in comparison?

We were playing two divisions above our natural level for most of the 1990s and now we are one division below, and at the right end of it. Bury and Rochdale are from an area where there is more money that's why they have risen as the demographics of the game have changed. Scunny are definitely in a higher division than their natural level, but that doesn't mean you should demand the same of us.

The fact is that your are attributing a fall that would have happened anyway to benign loans and all of the rest of it because you think Town are a far bigger fish than they actually are.

I thought this thread was about how we have progressed (or not) in our battle to move up to L2.  Now it seems to be a debate about John Fenty's legacy?  

My view on the JF debate is that we were massively screwed over by the whole ITV debacle.  We were holding our own above our natural level and we were probably hit more by the ITV thing than any other club due to it being a higher proportion of total income that was lost.  

Since then, there have been some bad decisions and appointments but in hindsight maybe the biggest mistake was not to take the easy option of administration.  I am proud that we didn't do it but we can see how other clubs have benefitted in the long run from screwing their creditors.

In the last few years I would argue that John Fenty's has done much to contribute to a feeling of stability at the club as well as simply keeping us afloat.  Maybe like Hurst, he has been learning on the job.

Finally, whilst we all want promotion, is life really so bad?  Four seasons in the top 5, better crowds than nearly all L2 sides and many in L1.  A motivated team scoring plenty of goals.  

Our natural level is to float between L1 and L2.  I look forward to our L1 relegation season in X years time when (if the Fishy hasn't imploded into indignant rage by then) we are on here moaning about being near the bottom of L1, calling for the Board to entice PH back from managing a Championship side and being nostalgic about those days in non league when we went months without losing and always won 4-1....

I just don't know anymore. I wish he'd just get us the fook up, so we don't have to keep having this conversation because it seems he has us in a no mans land of being too good to sack and not good enough to get us promotion, from what i admit is a tough league to get out of. Being perennially third and not quite hitting the 2+ points per game needed is torture.

I'll ask another question though. Are we really getting better or is the opposition not as good as previous seasons?

Quoted from promotion plaice

And as for a new stadium that seems to be dead in the water again. I see Eastleigh and now Torquay are in talks over moving to a new stadium.

Have you heard something, or do you mean the silence is deafening!

Quoted from TheCodfather1966

in the past three seasons !!!   I really don't know to be honest.  I am certainly not anti-Hurst at all, but still wonder how the likes of Macclesfield with hardly any fans and a very small budget have performed not far short of us over the past few seasons.  Is it the fact that so many teams are cannon fodder in this league that we win so many games which possibly distorts PH's achievements and makes him possibly look better than he actually is.  Given a choice between PH and an established manager with pedigree such as Gary Johnson, I would certainly opt for the latter.  If we do not go up this season, I personally would make a change at managerial level.  Not because PH has done a bad job, but more because things will probably need freshening up.  On a plus note crowds have been awesome this season, so that massively goes in PH's favour.  Sadly sometimes certain things in life do not happen, and maybe success and promotion for GTFC is not meant to be for PH.  I would love to see us go up this season, but if we don't, then Fenty has a huge decision to make for the start of the 2016-2017 season.  We have to get back where we belong ASAP.

UTM

There are lots of examples to think of but I just remember a cold foggy night in 2013 away at Braintree, we where absolute shite and beaten not for the first time by a set of part timers, even then we ended up in the play offs but did anyone really believe we would have enough and sure enough we did not.

The next year we ditched Gobby Robbie (long over due) good cup run beat the Scunts and despite being consistently inconsistent  kicked on to secure a play off spot again and again fell short. Despite all the stupidity away at Gateshead I think the draw at home cost us and that season we cleared out the Hurst and Scott squad and PH started to bring his players in and remember one thing he cannot be criticized for is being able to spot a player.

Last year a better squad, some good wins too many draws some stupid losses and poor home form meant that we where always chasing the top 2 BUT..... We did have our chances later in the season but we failed to take them. Our away from was unrivalled and the support was too but we cruised to a play off final after destroying a useful Eastleigh side over 2 legs. So to Wembley, again! And sadly the best team on then day lost on a penalty shoot out, how very English. Two weeks later most of the squad re-signed and "we go again" if PH was that inept players would not have signed as quickly as they did.

This year ............Massive support pre season with money raised and season tickets bought and a great starting 11, with massive support comes massive expectation and in the first 6 weeks we never really fulfilled the hype, most of which was not created by PH or the players. We are getting the ball down, we are scoring more goals than we can remember in ages and the defence is still pretty solid..........The fans are loyal, brilliant and turning out home and away in decent numbers (away in droves) some though are more obsessed with Cheltenham and FGR than they are getting behind the Manager. BUT though the title is probably one step to far  PROMOTION IS STILL POSSIBLE !

We have progressed but have not achieved our objective of getting back in the FL yet, this season though nobody else in this league has either. We have a good team and what appears to be a hard working "collective" culture within the playing squad & staff, that is down to the manager and his values.        

There's a guy called Wayne Bennett who is one of the most successful coaches in sport and tonight on Talk Sport they where going through some of his quotes one being "you are only a failure when you blame others" interesting quote that.

Earlier in the season we where the only ones discussing whether PH would go to Notts County, if he was that bad then why would we even think of it?      

  

Only PH's fans were seriously worried about him going to Notts County. The rest either thought he stood no chance or would have been happy or unmoved.

Pluses for Hurst. He has unearthed some good players and has instilled a good team ethic. He seems like a nice bloke. Bad points are he seems to have ditched a lot of the players he's recruited, he's not made the most of players he's recruited and has been outfought by opposition managers too often.

I tend to agree with what Alan Alger said on the Codpod the other week. To paraphrase, steady-eddies tend not to get promotion from this league.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Only PH's fans were seriously worried about him going to Notts County. The rest either thought he stood no chance or would have been happy or unmoved.

Pluses for Hurst. He has unearthed some good players and has instilled a good team ethic. He seems like a nice bloke. Bad points are he seems to have ditched a lot of the players he's recruited, he's not made the most of players he's recruited and has been outfought by opposition managers too often.

I tend to agree with what Alan Alger said on the Codpod the other week. To paraphrase, steady-eddies tend not to get promotion from this league.

This absolutely sums it up for me. You wouldn't ever expect to see Hurst behave like Darrel Clarke did last season or Steve Evans has in the past for instance, but they have done what it takes to get teams promoted. Hurst here and at previous clubs has regularly reached the play offs but for me doesn't have that extra bit of swagger that's needed for winning the title outright. He may do it through the play offs though with luck and a fair wind.

My biggest worry is that if we don't go up this season, the larger parachute payments come in next campaign and crucially, the emergency loan system is about to be extinct, meaning only the clubs with the largest budgets will be able to afford squads big enough to see them through the entire season, without the worry of injuries and suspensions or loss of form. It's about to get a whole lot tougher.

Remember that time John Still was filmed stood drunk up on a table in Luton telling the GET to "print that bar-stard"?

Quoted from LH

Remember that time John Still was filmed stood drunk up on a table in Luton telling the GET to "print that bar-stard"?

Yeah i get it, you don't need to be a twit to be a good manager.

Quoted from LH

Remember that time John Still was filmed stood drunk up on a table in Luton telling the GET to "print that bar-stard"?

Was that not Daryl Clarke?

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Was that not Daryl Clarke?

Yes, LH was making a point.

Quoted from ginnywings

This absolutely sums it up for me. You wouldn't ever expect to see Hurst behave like Darrel Clarke did last season or Steve Evans has in the past for instance, but they have done what it takes to get teams promoted. Hurst here and at previous clubs has regularly reached the play offs but for me doesn't have that extra bit of swagger that's needed for winning the title outright. He may do it through the play offs though with luck and a fair wind.

My biggest worry is that if we don't go up this season, the larger parachute payments come in next campaign and crucially, the emergency loan system is about to be extinct, meaning only the clubs with the largest budgets will be able to afford squads big enough to see them through the entire season, without the worry of injuries and suspensions or loss of form. It's about to get a whole lot tougher.

The parachute payments may have increased but usually the first person a relegated club needs to plicate is their bank manager rather than a greedy agent or two.

If a club comes down in the red with no benefactor underwriting that debt it may get called in by the bank if they have no visible income growth or the ability to pay their debts.

Agree completely though if we don't go up this year I am not sure what we can do to go to the next level. Lots of talk about income and budgets in recent days but that's not the managers job he has to work with what he has got. If the budget is not right maybe we should be looking to change the people who secure the income, if only...........!

Fans like managers who are "big characters" as they appear as passionate as the fans but it is not an essential credential for promotion. I admit that this is not a great comparison as he is a top notch coach but Eddy Howe has had some real success in recent years and we don't see him as a "big character". By that I am not comparing the two, if PH has half the success Howe has had he will have had a much better career than he could hope for,    

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Only PH's fans were seriously worried about him going to Notts County. The rest either thought he stood no chance or would have been happy or unmoved.

Pluses for Hurst. He has unearthed some good players and has instilled a good team ethic. He seems like a nice bloke. Bad points are he seems to have ditched a lot of the players he's recruited, he's not made the most of players he's recruited and has been outfought by opposition managers too often.

I tend to agree with what Alan Alger said on the Codpod the other week. To paraphrase, steady-eddies tend not to get promotion from this league.

Great post, my take on PH too  

Many, many moons ago we had a manager called Neil Woods who was an excellent coach and a true 'on the floor' football man. We began our marathon in the Conference trying to play L1 football and found ourselves out-thought and outclassed over a season by Crawley who played straightforward fast stuff with the best players available in each position.

Their manager, Mr S Evans T.W.A.T., had already proved he was able to get sides promoted and knew what was needed in this division. He also knew how to spend his budget. He signed Miss Brodie in her prime remember and in one move strengthened his side and stopped York from challenging at the top. Fans of Mr Evans will know too that he changed the style and personnel at Crawley the next season and off they went up to L1. He may be a tool but he knows his stuff.

Budgets do matter but money isn't everything. Luton had money to splash for years and failed. Richard Money was a sort of upmarket Paul Hurst in his management and it wasn't until they got someone who knew the sort of hard defence and fast and direct football the division needed that they went up. Fleetwood were the same. It's a question of spending money throughout the season to keep momentum going and having a ruthless streak. The only other way is luck. A smaller squad who all hit form and play above their ability at the same time like Mansfield and York did.

So easy to see why fans and Fenty went for the Dynamic Duo from Boston. Should have been the same result. But it hasn't been has it? For 3+ seasons we have basically played the same way with different players, had some good results, played nice football in patches, had some poor results and staggered close to the top of the league without ever convincing anyone that we were champions elect and hoping for the breaks in the play offs. Even our latest winning run was peppered with comments on the Fishy and in the official reports about us winning "without looking at our best", or "not getting out of second gear" or ...... you get the gist. But for Amond where would we have been? In other words we woz lucky to make it to 10 unbeaten and the luck ran out on a cold Saturday against a reasonable, average Conference outfit. The real crunch though comes in the next few league games when we see the reaction to that defeat.

It seems likely that Cheltenham and FGR will not now have major blips and the title will probably be decided when they play each other. Both have got sides and squads better than ours even though ours is better than any we have had in this league. February/March is always the best time to get your second wind and hit the top. Chances are that the runners up must start as play-off favourites.

So then, how far have we come? A long way from that first season no doubt. But in the past 3 years? Probably not far enough or fast enough. The signings last summer gave us a better side on the park than last year but everything is relative. The lack of signings to keep improving the squad during the season has left us behind the top two and we are still dropping points in games that a promotion bound side would be expected to win. Possibly if we reach the play offs we could be said to be in better shape than last time because we have better strikers, but that's about all.

On our day we are as good as the top two but there are too many "not our day" games. We don't have that relentless and ruthless look about us. We are definitely better but not better enough.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Many, many moons ago we had a manager called Neil Woods who was an excellent coach and a true 'on the floor' football man. We began our marathon in the Conference trying to play L1 football and found ourselves out-thought and outclassed over a season by Crawley who played straightforward fast stuff with the best players available in each position.

Their manager, Mr S Evans T.W.A.T., had already proved he was able to get sides promoted and knew what was needed in this division. He also knew how to spend his budget. He signed Miss Brodie in her prime remember and in one move strengthened his side and stopped York from challenging at the top. Fans of Mr Evans will know too that he changed the style and personnel at Crawley the next season and off they went up to L1. He may be a tool but he knows his stuff.

Budgets do matter but money isn't everything. Luton had money to splash for years and failed. Richard Money was a sort of upmarket Paul Hurst in his management and it wasn't until they got someone who knew the sort of hard defence and fast and direct football the division needed that they went up. Fleetwood were the same. It's a question of spending money throughout the season to keep momentum going and having a ruthless streak. The only other way is luck. A smaller squad who all hit form and play above their ability at the same time like Mansfield and York did.

So easy to see why fans and Fenty went for the Dynamic Duo from Boston. Should have been the same result. But it hasn't been has it? For 3+ seasons we have basically played the same way with different players, had some good results, played nice football in patches, had some poor results and staggered close to the top of the league without ever convincing anyone that we were champions elect and hoping for the breaks in the play offs. Even our latest winning run was peppered with comments on the Fishy and in the official reports about us winning "without looking at our best", or "not getting out of second gear" or ...... you get the gist. But for Amond where would we have been? In other words we woz lucky to make it to 10 unbeaten and the luck ran out on a cold Saturday against a reasonable, average Conference outfit. The real crunch though comes in the next few league games when we see the reaction to that defeat.

It seems likely that Cheltenham and FGR will not now have major blips and the title will probably be decided when they play each other. Both have got sides and squads better than ours even though ours is better than any we have had in this league. February/March is always the best time to get your second wind and hit the top. Chances are that the runners up must start as play-off favourites.

So then, how far have we come? A long way from that first season no doubt. But in the past 3 years? Probably not far enough or fast enough. The signings last summer gave us a better side on the park than last year but everything is relative. The lack of signings to keep improving the squad during the season has left us behind the top two and we are still dropping points in games that a promotion bound side would be expected to win. Possibly if we reach the play offs we could be said to be in better shape than last time because we have better strikers, but that's about all.

On our day we are as good as the top two but there are too many "not our day" games. We don't have that relentless and ruthless look about us. We are definitely better but not better enough.

Good post!

Sums it up for me. Paul Hurst is a nice bloke - probably too nice to be successful in what is a pretty cut-throat league.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Sums it up for me. Paul Hurst is a nice bloke - probably too nice to be successful in what is a pretty cut-throat league.

This genuinely isnt aimed at you but you mentioned it the latest in a long line of people to do so.
Hurst seems to have this reputation as Mr Nice Guy but his treatment of Amond early doors and latterly Mackreth shows a fairly ruthless streak- sort of my way or the highway.
This board has seen criticism for those events which smacks a little of double standards. Hurst is damned if he doesn't and damned by faint praise if he does....

Quoted from barralad

This genuinely isnt aimed at you but you mentioned it the latest in a long line of people to do so.
Hurst seems to have this reputation as Mr Nice Guy but his treatment of Amond early doors and latterly Mackreth shows a fairly ruthless streak- sort of my way or the highway.
This board has seen criticism for those events which smacks a little of double standards. Hurst is damned if he doesn't and damned by faint praise if he does....

I think there's quite a few people searching for flaws in Hurst as if everything else at the club is perfectly positioned for us to win the league and it's just him holding us back. The simple fact is that there are at least 2 or 3 clubs with bigger budgets than us every season and it's very difficult to finish above them all. I think Hurst's biggest achievement is making it look easy to finish in the top 4 every year. We're still very much in the promotion shake up, the general feeling that we've already failed to go up this year is bizarre.

I think most of us agree our team has improved a little every season we have been down here.

This is our best chance of getting promotion one way or the other,

If we fail again we might do it next season,

BUT

If our team does not improve next season and we do not do as well,

Then is the time to get rid and try someone new,

However I think we will do it this season.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Many, many moons ago we had a manager called Neil Woods who was an excellent coach and a true 'on the floor' football man. We began our marathon in the Conference trying to play L1 football and found ourselves out-thought and outclassed over a season by Crawley who played straightforward fast stuff with the best players available in each position.

Their manager, Mr S Evans T.W.A.T., had already proved he was able to get sides promoted and knew what was needed in this division. He also knew how to spend his budget. He signed Miss Brodie in her prime remember and in one move strengthened his side and stopped York from challenging at the top. Fans of Mr Evans will know too that he changed the style and personnel at Crawley the next season and off they went up to L1. He may be a tool but he knows his stuff.

Budgets do matter but money isn't everything. Luton had money to splash for years and failed. Richard Money was a sort of upmarket Paul Hurst in his management and it wasn't until they got someone who knew the sort of hard defence and fast and direct football the division needed that they went up. Fleetwood were the same. It's a question of spending money throughout the season to keep momentum going and having a ruthless streak. The only other way is luck. A smaller squad who all hit form and play above their ability at the same time like Mansfield and York did.

So easy to see why fans and Fenty went for the Dynamic Duo from Boston. Should have been the same result. But it hasn't been has it? For 3+ seasons we have basically played the same way with different players, had some good results, played nice football in patches, had some poor results and staggered close to the top of the league without ever convincing anyone that we were champions elect and hoping for the breaks in the play offs. Even our latest winning run was peppered with comments on the Fishy and in the official reports about us winning "without looking at our best", or "not getting out of second gear" or ...... you get the gist. But for Amond where would we have been? In other words we woz lucky to make it to 10 unbeaten and the luck ran out on a cold Saturday against a reasonable, average Conference outfit. The real crunch though comes in the next few league games when we see the reaction to that defeat.

It seems likely that Cheltenham and FGR will not now have major blips and the title will probably be decided when they play each other. Both have got sides and squads better than ours even though ours is better than any we have had in this league. February/March is always the best time to get your second wind and hit the top. Chances are that the runners up must start as play-off favourites.

So then, how far have we come? A long way from that first season no doubt. But in the past 3 years? Probably not far enough or fast enough. The signings last summer gave us a better side on the park than last year but everything is relative. The lack of signings to keep improving the squad during the season has left us behind the top two and we are still dropping points in games that a promotion bound side would be expected to win. Possibly if we reach the play offs we could be said to be in better shape than last time because we have better strikers, but that's about all.

On our day we are as good as the top two but there are too many "not our day" games. We don't have that relentless and ruthless look about us. We are definitely better but not better enough.

A good, well balanced post which sums up how I see the situation except for the highlighted statement. Any team is susceptible to a blip in form ( and that isn't wishful thinking on my behalf ! ). A key injury, a " bad day at the office " or just a poor result against a " park the bus " team can put a team off its stride and self doubt can creep in.

Quoted from barralad

This genuinely isnt aimed at you but you mentioned it the latest in a long line of people to do so.
Hurst seems to have this reputation as Mr Nice Guy but his treatment of Amond early doors and latterly Mackreth shows a fairly ruthless streak- sort of my way or the highway.
This board has seen criticism for those events which smacks a little of double standards. Hurst is damned if he doesn't and damned by faint praise if he does....

I'm only commenting on his manner and the way that the team never seems fired up at the beginning of every 45 minutes we play. I think the dropping of Amond is more of a reflection of him trying to find the right partner for Omar when early doors Omar was the problem and his treatment of Mackreth seems to follow the pattern of Scott Neilson and,to an extent, Aswad Thomas, neither of whom seemed to want to play the way PH wanted them to.

In most realms of life, nice guys seem to come second, true winners have an edge which I think Paul lacks.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I'm only commenting on his manner and the way that the team never seems fired up at the beginning of every 45 minutes we play. I think the dropping of Amond is more of a reflection of him trying to find the right partner for Omar when early doors Omar was the problem and his treatment of Mackreth seems to follow the pattern of Scott Neilson and,to an extent, Aswad Thomas, neither of whom seemed to want to play the way PH wanted them to.

In most realms of life, nice guys seem to come second, true winners have an edge which I think Paul lacks.

Teams reflect their manager too. Very few 'nice guys' have had really successful teams. Even the ones with a good public persona like McMenemy for instance have a real edge in the dressing room and dugout. We don't know what PH is like in the dressing room but his sides rarely seem to me to have that dog with a bone bite we remember of Buckley's or Kerr's. He's unearthed some decent players but he needs to find another Bobby C or a John Cockerill to give us that edge on the park.

Lets sit in judgement when the season is over.Town's season is far from over!W e are not where we would like to be at the moment and one or two things have happened of late which may seem confusing looking in without the full facts but I do believe PH and his staff are doing their best and that our season will have a satisfactory conclusion.So its BP on Saturday  and Bromley on Tuesday for me.UTM.

Read all the posts some good some bad, I just don't like the bloke,already he seems to be playing the card that the squad is thin ect ect, whose fault is that Paul.
Good man management not at all, as someone said, podge was left out because he felt he needed a partner for Omar who came I suppose with a big fee and a huge reputation, Az, Neilson, Cook, Brown ...............
Then his in match tactics, has anybody seen him make a change that was tactically good?
Always falls short for me, where did the fund raising go by the way ?

Podge was left out and came back a better player. This line of "ruining forwards" is so so repetitive and completely untrue

Quoted from Fan

Read all the posts some good some bad, I just don't like the bloke,already he seems to be playing the card that the squad is thin ect ect, whose fault is that Paul.
Good man management not at all, as someone said, podge was left out because he felt he needed a partner for Omar who came I suppose with a big fee and a huge reputation, Az, Neilson, Cook, Brown ...............
Then his in match tactics, has anybody seen him make a change that was tactically good?
Always falls short for me, where did the fund raising go by the way ?

I wouldn't want any of them back.

Wish we were playing a league match instead of the FA Trophy. We need to get back in the grove fast the momentum was good up to the Gateshead match.

Quoted from LookBackInAngers

Lets sit in judgement when the season is over.Town's season is far from over!W e are not where we would like to be at the moment and one or two things have happened of late which may seem confusing looking in without the full facts but I do believe PH and his staff are doing their best and that our season will have a satisfactory conclusion.So its BP on Saturday  and Bromley on Tuesday for me.UTM.

What should we do then? Say nowt and just carry on?

Not the way I work I'm afraid, I'm entitled to say my piece on a forum, just as you have done.

You look at the players we have in each position and it looks like a very strong squad for this league. Is it the strongest? The current table suggests it isn't but I believe it should be a lot closer to the top if not top.

When I look back to all the positivity at the start of the season, the way the fans got behind the team after the play-off final defeat, operation promotion, the season ticket sales, the signing of Bogle. It looked like our best chance for years. We had kept most of the team that so narrowly missed out the previous season and added some quality additions to the squad.

The fixture list was kind to us at the beginning of the season. We had the perfect opportunity to start fast and put down a statement of intent. We could easily have had FGR's start to the season given our early fixtures. But we messed it up. By the time we were defeated at home by Cheltenham and looking at who we had dropped points to, it always looked like automatic promotion was a big ask.

Is this is down to the manager? He is manager of one of the biggest clubs in this league with one of the biggest budgets, play-offs should be the minimum, our title ambitions shouldn't be, realistically, over in January.

It's one of the few clubs in this league that can attract players who've had offers from League clubs. People say PH has an eye for a good player, which is a fair point but it will be easier for him to entice a player to come here than most in this league. So he gets good players for this standard and he gets them to play in the way he believes we should play.

That is fine but the problem comes when his way is not working. This is what separates the good managers from the average. Too often when his way is not working he does very little to change things IMO and on the few occasions he does, he does it far too late. Take the Cheltenham game, IMO we were in charge of the first 30-40 minutes of that match. Gary Johnson realised this and altered his team set up. Cheltenham then stopped our attacks down the flanks, took control of the middle of the park and ran out deserved winners. Hurst didn't react at all. This is where the good managers earn their pay, how they win those tight games they really had no right to. FGR have done that recently too but far, far too often in a tight game, we drop points.

Look at our season to date. 5-0's, 4-0's 4-1's even a 7-0. When Hurst's way works it all looks good but he has to learn to be adaptable in his tactics when they aren't going so well.

So have we progressed under him? The players we have are better than previous seasons IMO but that isn't being reflected in the League table.

For me, under PH, the only way we will go up is by having by far the best squad of players, for this League, that we'll probably win it comfortably. While we only have 'one of the best' I don't think PH has that ability the better managers have to win a tight title fight. At least, he hasn't shown he has, so far.

^^^^ great post imo ^^^^

I think it's quite widely debated that even with the Operation Promotion money our budget still isn't even close to the top 3 of this league.    You only have to look at the sheer scale of losses that FGR are absorbing to be aware of that.  Then also look at the names Eastleigh were trying to sign last month to further realise what we're competing against.

This idea that we should be champions just because we're Grimsby, we were top of the Championship for a day in 2001 and we raised £100,000 in the summer - where exactly has it come from?  

Like it not, we're one of the bigger clubs in this league with a better history than anyone else.  That's it.   We're not the big fish.  We're not the dominant force, we're not the money bags side and we definitely don't have any god given right to be top of the table.  Our history counts for nothing.

I'm not keen to get involved in this Hurst in/Hurst out argument but Hurst has made us consistently competitive over the last 3/4 seasons despite us not having the biggest budget in the league.  I know this won't please a lot of people but if Fenty has at any point said to Hurst 'your target is promotion, nothing else will do' then it's an unfair target.  Yes, that hurts me too to see my proud club settling for a play-off place in the fifth flipping tier of English football.  But that's the reality of it.  If we've got the fifth best budget in the league then anything other than fifth is a major achievement.  You can also add to the situation the hindrance of our location.  Hurst does very well to attract players here in an economy of one-year deals and no guaranteed renewals.  

How far have we come?  Year on year I think we've improved under Hurst, maybe not as much as we would have liked but this side would beat the side from 3 years ago comfortably.  Will that be enough to keep Hurst in a job if we're still a Conference side next season?  I don't know.  Personally I like the work he's doing here and wouldn't be jumping up and down for him to go, but I can understand the growing frustration.  

You are misinterpreting most post diehard.

I never said we had the biggest budget. Yes, FGR & Eastleigh seem to have heavy investor's and may have the most money because of that in this League. But we have a comparable budget with the best of the rest. My statement that we have one of the biggest budgets in the league is correct.

I don't think we should be Champions because we are Grimsby either but we should be putting up more of a challenge  than we are because we ARE one of the biggest clubs in this League.

Neither did I call for PH's head, it was just a balanced view on his achievements which I don't believe are better than average. We should be finishing in the top 5 consistently because we are one of the biggest 5 clubs in this league. That should also be your minimum expectation as a Grimsby Town FC fan. I couldn't understand a fan who's expectations were less.

I wasn't directly referring or even disagreeing with your post Mal, just general thoughts and observations.

On the basis that we were a refereeing decision away from promotion last season and we, allegedly, improved our squad in the summer (Podge's goal tally suggests we did), we don't appear to have come as far as we should. You could also add that without the impact of Conor Townsend in the unbeaten run, we might not be in as good a position as we are now.

Regards looking at the situation at the end of the season, what would be the point? The tide would either be further out or well in by then.

Quoted from diehardmariner

I think it's quite widely debated that even with the Operation Promotion money our budget still isn't even close to the top 3 of this league.    You only have to look at the sheer scale of losses that FGR are absorbing to be aware of that.  Then also look at the names Eastleigh were trying to sign last month to further realise what we're competing against.

This idea that we should be champions just because we're Grimsby, we were top of the Championship for a day in 2001 and we raised £100,000 in the summer - where exactly has it come from?  

Like it not, we're one of the bigger clubs in this league with a better history than anyone else.  That's it.   We're not the big fish.  We're not the dominant force, we're not the money bags side and we definitely don't have any god given right to be top of the table.  Our history counts for nothing.

I'm not keen to get involved in this Hurst in/Hurst out argument but Hurst has made us consistently competitive over the last 3/4 seasons despite us not having the biggest budget in the league.  I know this won't please a lot of people but if Fenty has at any point said to Hurst 'your target is promotion, nothing else will do' then it's an unfair target.  Yes, that hurts me too to see my proud club settling for a play-off place in the fifth flipping tier of English football.  But that's the reality of it.  If we've got the fifth best budget in the league then anything other than fifth is a major achievement.  You can also add to the situation the hindrance of our location.  Hurst does very well to attract players here in an economy of one-year deals and no guaranteed renewals.  

How far have we come?  Year on year I think we've improved under Hurst, maybe not as much as we would have liked but this side would beat the side from 3 years ago comfortably.  Will that be enough to keep Hurst in a job if we're still a Conference side next season?  I don't know.  Personally I like the work he's doing here and wouldn't be jumping up and down for him to go, but I can understand the growing frustration.  

I am on your wavelength with this. The only thing I would say about budgets is like I said earlier on this thread - money isn't everything. It depends how you spend it. Evans knew how to do that when he was at Crawley, Woods didn't. I'm not sure Hurst has made the most of his budget either. A season is a long time and the squad you start with in August may be quite different the next April for all sorts of reasons - loss of form, injury, attitude .... the art of building a promotion side is keeping the momentum going so you start well and  finish well.

Despite a very good pre-season we didn't start well. Getting Connor Townsend was a big plus but that was always going to be temporary.  No doubt there are reasons (excuses?) why certain players could not be signed but the fact remains that since Townsend went we haven't acquired anyone to actually make the side better, just fill in a gap. And in fact the squad is now weaker in numbers than at any time in the season. This doesn't strike me as good management just at the time when you need that bit of extra quality for a good promotion push in February/March. A little bad luck can be acceptable but to sign no-one apart from a left back cover is poor to say the least.

Fortunately it is the Trophy this weekend, maybe there will be a loan before our next league game to lift the team. They need a lift because this really is a crucial time. Another good run secures at least playoffs in good time, a bad run and we are in the dog fight.

I've not enjoyed supporting town more than I have this season. It's just been ace, especially the away days. I think he's doing fine, but more importantly he's getting better with each passing season. Both on a player front and points tally front. Surely you can't ignore that sort of progression?

Quoted from excusebeef

I've not enjoyed supporting town more than I have this season. It's just been ace, especially the away days. I think he's doing fine, but more importantly he's getting better with each passing season. Both on a player front and points tally front. Surely you can't ignore that sort of progression?

How's he getting better, we look likely to finish 3rd, and we still keep cocking it up against the poorer teams.

As for progression, remind me, what league are we still in.

Quoted from GrimRob

We were playing two divisions above our natural level for most of the 1990s and now we are one division below, and at the right end of it. Bury and Rochdale are from an area where there is more money that's why they have risen as the demographics of the game have changed. Scunny are definitely in a higher division than their natural level, but that doesn't mean you should demand the same of us.

The fact is that your are attributing a fall that would have happened anyway to benign loans and all of the rest of it because you think Town are a far bigger fish than they actually are.

Historically, at least, it would suggest our natural level is more League One rather than League Two

Seasons spent at Level 1 of the football league system: 12
Seasons spent at Level 2 of the football league system: 49
Seasons spent at Level 3 of the football league system: 30
Seasons spent at Level 4 of the football league system: 14

We are an old football club so we have most seasons at Level 2 but that is not our natural level anymore. I would think mid table level 3 would be our natural level, if we can ever get out of our current league, that is.

Quoted from diehardmariner

I think it's quite widely debated that even with the Operation Promotion money our budget still isn't even close to the top 3 of this league.    You only have to look at the sheer scale of losses that FGR are absorbing to be aware of that.  Then also look at the names Eastleigh were trying to sign last month to further realise what we're competing against.

This idea that we should be champions just because we're Grimsby, we were top of the Championship for a day in 2001 and we raised £100,000 in the summer - where exactly has it come from?  

Like it not, we're one of the bigger clubs in this league with a better history than anyone else.  That's it.   We're not the big fish.  We're not the dominant force, we're not the money bags side and we definitely don't have any god given right to be top of the table.  Our history counts for nothing.

I'm not keen to get involved in this Hurst in/Hurst out argument but Hurst has made us consistently competitive over the last 3/4 seasons despite us not having the biggest budget in the league.  I know this won't please a lot of people but if Fenty has at any point said to Hurst 'your target is promotion, nothing else will do' then it's an unfair target.  Yes, that hurts me too to see my proud club settling for a play-off place in the fifth flipping tier of English football.  But that's the reality of it.  If we've got the fifth best budget in the league then anything other than fifth is a major achievement.  You can also add to the situation the hindrance of our location.  Hurst does very well to attract players here in an economy of one-year deals and no guaranteed renewals.  

How far have we come?  Year on year I think we've improved under Hurst, maybe not as much as we would have liked but this side would beat the side from 3 years ago comfortably.  Will that be enough to keep Hurst in a job if we're still a Conference side next season?  I don't know.  Personally I like the work he's doing here and wouldn't be jumping up and down for him to go, but I can understand the growing frustration.  

So does the team with the biggest budget win every league from the Premiership downwards?.

How come some of the biggest teams in the land aren't doing that and keep sacking their managers.

Surely one of the biggest factors has to be the manager and how he gets the best out of the players he chooses.

FGR have probably had the biggest budget in our league these past few seasons but until now haven't really looked like winning the league.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

A little bad luck can be acceptable but to sign no-one apart from a left back cover is poor to say the least.

.

Except that's not at all true. We signed two central midfielders (senior players) and lost one who has done nothing all season so we're probably stronger in that area of the pitch. Our defence looks weaker in depth now due to injuries but we have as many defenders as any other point in the season. Letting Mackreth leave and not replacing him was stupid in my opinion so that I would say is poor and needs rectifying with a good loan player. And we've been needing a fourth striker since the start of the season and I'm really hoping we can get a decent loan in although I wouldn't be surprised if we were hoping to get Alex Jones back but he's had a better offer.

Quoted from arryarryarry

So does the team with the biggest budget win every league from the Premiership downwards?.

How come some of the biggest teams in the land aren't doing that and keep sacking their managers.

Surely one of the biggest factors has to be the manager and how he gets the best out of the players he chooses.

FGR have probably had the biggest budget in our league these past few seasons but until now haven't really looked like winning the league.

Biggest budget win the league?  Yeah, generally it does.  Not all the time but more often than not they do.  Chelsea last season - whacked the cash on Costa and Fabregas - won the league.  Bournemouth last year in the Championship - ridiculously big budget saw them win the league.

The big teams that are sacking their managers are either over-reacting or have failed to strengthen where needed and most importantly when needed.  Using the obvious example of Mourinho, he made no secret of his disappointment at the clubs inability to replace ageing players within the squad.  Now there are far more many factors involved in Chelsea's demise under him but for me the biggest issue was the hierarchy there got complacent and didn't believe in spending whereas their rivals did.  

Doesn't the fact that we've outperformed FGR season on season tell you that Hurst isn't doing that bad a job really?   If we've got the fifth best budget in the league, we should see anything as finishing above fifth as better than expected.

Don't get me wrong, I really really want us to win this league.  But there's a small handful of clubs who will be thinking the same and that they expect to win it, based solely on a far superior budget and/or location factors.  

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

I am on your wavelength with this. The only thing I would say about budgets is like I said earlier on this thread - money isn't everything. It depends how you spend it. Evans knew how to do that when he was at Crawley, Woods didn't. I'm not sure Hurst has made the most of his budget either. A season is a long time and the squad you start with in August may be quite different the next April for all sorts of reasons - loss of form, injury, attitude .... the art of building a promotion side is keeping the momentum going so you start well and  finish well.

Despite a very good pre-season we didn't start well. Getting Connor Townsend was a big plus but that was always going to be temporary.  No doubt there are reasons (excuses?) why certain players could not be signed but the fact remains that since Townsend went we haven't acquired anyone to actually make the side better, just fill in a gap. And in fact the squad is now weaker in numbers than at any time in the season. This doesn't strike me as good management just at the time when you need that bit of extra quality for a good promotion push in February/March. A little bad luck can be acceptable but to sign no-one apart from a left back cover is poor to say the least.

Fortunately it is the Trophy this weekend, maybe there will be a loan before our next league game to lift the team. They need a lift because this really is a crucial time. Another good run secures at least playoffs in good time, a bad run and we are in the dog fight.

Very well made points regards how you spend the budget.  Evans is a shrewd operator with or without money, which is why he's now in the Championship.  If it wasn't for his chequered past I think he would have managed much higher much sooner.  I find the bloke absolutely odious but he is a fantastic manager.  

His Crawley budget was unbelievable, the fact he could spend £275,000 on Richard Brodie and not play him tells you everything.  I remember rumours of several of the Crawley players taking home £5,000 a week.  Doesn't matter how good a manager you are, you can't compete with that.  

I don't know really about how Hurst has used his budget.  Historically he always seems to have left a little bit behind for January so he can strengthen (I know last year we were helped by the Mullen money but I think he had already made a few additions prior).  At the beginning of the season I thought Hurst had built a very, very good squad.  3 good full backs, 3 good centre backs, 3 good central midfielders, 3 good wingers, 3 good strikers and Nathan Arnold to make up either another striker or a winger.  Added to that two lads in Venney and Clifton who would boost the midfield if needed.  If not sure how else he could have built it better.  Had we brought in another centre back it would have seemed wasteful when we've had Pearson sat on the bench most of the season.    

In January Hurst strengthened the midfield by one.  I do think he's made a mistake in letting Mackreth go without a replacement in mind because we're now down to 3 wide players.  Monkhouse is carrying an injury and Marshall isn't exactly what you would call reliable or consistent.  That's it though.   Striker....yeah another body would do us well but Hurst has previously brought in strikers and he's been moaned at.  

Plus it may well be that come next week we're top heavy in certain areas again, I definitely don't believe Hurst's denial of his interest in Henderson or him saying he's drawing blanks when looking to boost the numbers.

Quoted from psgmariner

The "we have better players than last year" line gets trotted out every year.

No doubt it will next year whatever division we are in. People always favour current players over those who have gone on to pastures new.

Fairish point but I think they are better players. We've not seen the like of Amond for donkeys years and so many players have improved from where they began - Toto a prime example.

This is a better team than last year and CTFC and FGR are not as good as Barnet or BR were last season. So why aren't we top and why don't we look like we're going to be champions? Don't know. There in lies the rub.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Biggest budget win the league?  Yeah, generally it does.  Not all the time but more often than not they do.  Chelsea last season - whacked the cash on Costa and Fabregas - won the league.  Bournemouth last year in the Championship - ridiculously big budget saw them win the league.

The big teams that are sacking their managers are either over-reacting or have failed to strengthen where needed and most importantly when needed.  Using the obvious example of Mourinho, he made no secret of his disappointment at the clubs inability to replace ageing players within the squad.  Now there are far more many factors involved in Chelsea's demise under him but for me the biggest issue was the hierarchy there got complacent and didn't believe in spending whereas their rivals did.  

Doesn't the fact that we've outperformed FGR season on season tell you that Hurst isn't doing that bad a job really?   If we've got the fifth best budget in the league, we should see anything as finishing above fifth as better than expected.

Don't get me wrong, I really really want us to win this league.  But there's a small handful of clubs who will be thinking the same and that they expect to win it, based solely on a far superior budget and/or location factors.  

I think finishing above FGR had more to do with their managers and the players they signed, just ask any FGR fan, their board was full of complaints and "sack the manager" comments.

Quoted from arryarryarry

I think finishing above FGR had more to do with their managers and the players they signed, just ask any FGR fan, their board was full of complaints and "sack the manager" comments.

If I could find a VGR fan I probably would..
So up against his contemporaries Hurst isnt doing a bad job?

Quoted from GrimRob

[b][/b]
We were playing two divisions above our natural level for most of the 1990s and now we are one division below, and at the right end of it. Bury and Rochdale are from an area where there is more money that's why they have risen as the demographics of the game have changed. Scunny are definitely in a higher division than their natural level, but that doesn't mean you should demand the same of us.

The fact is that your are attributing a fall that would have happened anyway to benign loans and all of the rest of it because you think Town are a far bigger fish than they actually are.

Having just looked at the football league tables of all four divisions, I think you would struggle NOT to list 22 clubs which are smaller than Town. Our natural level is league one, on par with clubs like Oldham, Blackpool, Port Vale.  Grimrob you write some tosh at times!

How far have we come? Under John Fenty very far, from the 2nd tier of English football to being stuck in non-league. I will never forgive him for allowing our club to suffer as it has in the last few years.  We've no given right to be a league team, but Fenty is totally inept & to blame for our current status. Win promotion or not this season, this club has to remove the one factor responsible for its recent decline if it's to be competing with Scunthorpe again for players & bragging rights. No CEO, or MD of any other business would have survived the incompetence of his control.  Also the new stadium will only happen, after he has gone!  The local authorities seem to have a problem with him.  If he doesn't do the right thing this summer and leave, it's time the fans demanded change.

Quoted from Pint of Mild Please Batchy

Having just looked at the football league tables of all four divisions, I think you would struggle NOT to list 22 clubs which are smaller than Town. Our natural level is league one, on par with clubs like Oldham, Blackpool, Port Vale.  Grimrob you write some tosh at times!

I agree with that

Quoted from jonnyboy82

Sorry but fenty doesnt have a hard decision to make if we dont go up..

Its quite a straight forward one to make and it involves thanks for the hard work and good luck at your new club.

Harsh but true for me JohhnyBoy.We have to do whats in the best interest for the club and my gut is if we dont get the promotion this year let him go

Lets not remember that Hurst came to us from Boston and shows ultimately he just wants to better himself as well(cant really blame him).At the heart of it he wants whats best for himself not the club as do many of the players.Lets face it though if they were any good they wouldn't be playing for us but be where the money is eg the prem.Only thing that sticks is the true fans who carry the club through thick and thin

Quoted from kingster72

How far have we come? Under John Fenty very far, from the 2nd tier of English football to being stuck in non-league. I will never forgive him for allowing our club to suffer as it has in the last few years.  We've no given right to be a league team, but Fenty is totally inept & to blame for our current status. Win promotion or not this season, this club has to remove the one factor responsible for its recent decline if it's to be competing with Scunthorpe again for players & bragging rights. No CEO, or MD of any other business would have survived the incompetence of his control.  Also the new stadium will only happen, after he has gone!  The local authorities seem to have a problem with him.  If he doesn't do the right thing this summer and leave, it's time the fans demanded change.

I'm sure, from what I've heard, that this is true.

I think there's a significant advantage through having the biggest budget, I don't think it can be argued that it makes it much harder for those with less cash to spend.  Therefore FGR should be first, Eastleigh Second and so on, so how have Cheltenham got to be top of the league?  Did they have a big budget?  I genuinely don't know the answer.  That aside assuming we have a top 6 budget then a top 6 finish is on target I suppose.  However for me, success isn't about being on target, it's about exceeding targets if that's the only way to get promoted.  Successful teams in football exceed targets, successful Managers in all walks of life exceed targets, 'steady Eddies' simply keep things on an even keel.

Paul seems to fall into the steady Eddie category, there or there abouts but just doesn't quite have that little bit extra to generate success.  That for me is why he must go at the end of the season if we are still in this league. He isn't a poor Manager by any measurement, but at GTFC he hasn't been a successful one either.

Quoted from kingster72

How far have we come? Under John Fenty very far, from the 2nd tier of English football to being stuck in non-league. I will never forgive him for allowing our club to suffer as it has in the last few years.  We've no given right to be a league team, but Fenty is totally inept & to blame for our current status. Win promotion or not this season, this club has to remove the one factor responsible for its recent decline if it's to be competing with Scunthorpe again for players & bragging rights. No CEO, or MD of any other business would have survived the incompetence of his control.  Also the new stadium will only happen, after he has gone!  The local authorities seem to have a problem with him.  If he doesn't do the right thing this summer and leave, it's time the fans demanded change.

The absolute root cause of all our problems! Despite hi assertions that all our problems are down to ITV Digital ????

Local Authorities probably have a an issue with him on the basis of.........

1. The "Golden Touch" he has had with GTFC, that speaks for itself.

2. He is a Tory Councillor and to some this may feel like a conflict of interests when talking (and it is all talk) about the mythical stadium.

This club will only succeed with a change at board level. It does not have to be a wealthy benefactor but just someone who wants to deliver football as well as commercial success to the club and it's fans.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

The absolute root cause of all our problems! Despite hi assertions that all our problems are down to ITV Digital ????

Local Authorities probably have a an issue with him on the basis of.........

1. The "Golden Touch" he has had with GTFC, that speaks for itself.

2. He is a Tory Councillor and to some this may feel like a conflict of interests when talking (and it is all talk) about the mythical stadium.

This club will only succeed with a change at board level. It does not have to be a wealthy benefactor but just someone who wants to deliver football as well as commercial success to the club and it's fans.

As I posted on 'Memory Lapse' thread, I'd forgotten that Fenty sold most of his shares to Mike Rouse AFTER ITV Digital collapsed and then bought back in a year later, so actually for him to blame ITV Digital is slightly wrong.