Tomlinson "surprise"

Quoted from grimsby pete

Arsenal are the masters of defensive football,

Yes they try and play attractive football but defence is the key,

Now let me think, when did they last win the championship ?

The most successful teams attack and have goal scorers in their team,

Come on Mr Hurst we would rather win 4 -2 than 1-0.

Play a more attacking team.

This is just simply untrue. Arsenal scored the third highest amount of goals last season, hardly a defensive side.

Defences do win championships. If you don't concede many your chances of winning games where you don't play well increases as you only need to scrape a lucky goal off someone's bottom to win. However, PH's problem is that he cannot set up a defence sufficiently without sacrificing some attacking intent. For his, and our, sake, I hope he finds a way of getting the most out of our talented forwards and to stop the silly goals going in against us like at the start of the season. Having said all that, a lot of them were individual errors which won't always occur and I fear he has panicked and gone back to what he knows best which unfortunately will not make the most of this squad's potential.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Actions speak louder than words Rick.

True Ron.Iam not saying Tomlinson should be a starter though just a useful backup to have given how hard he works and to be fair from what I saw against Forest Green did try to make some positive runs into their box

Quoted from grimsby pete

Arsenal are the masters of defensive football,

George Graham left more than 20 years ago!

Quoted from Maringer

As I've pointed out in the past, Tomlinson has scored more goals than Amond in each of the past 3 seasons, albeit in a division lower. But that is neither here nor there and ignores the fact that we are comparing apples to oranges. Tomlinson does things in a game that Amond doesn't. If Amond could do that work as well, he'd be playing at a higher level.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see Amond play more because he's a clever player with fantastic movement which should cause problems at this level, but I'm not convinced that the Bogle/Amond partnership offers enough up top against the stronger teams.

Wouldn't surprise me to see a Bogle/Amond partnership tomorrow, however, with Halifax struggling so badly at the back. You'd think they ought to be able to score a few and their relative lack of 'defensive' work shouldn't be such an issue.

Bogle and Amond haven't really played together as a partnership against the 'stronger teams', or at least, not enough to really judge that, so that's untested really.
I think the argument that Tomlinson has scored more goals than Amond at a lower level is spurious, or at least, flawed, and not really like you. Honestly, in your opinion, who is the better footballer? The better striker? I think it's absolutely uncontestable.

As for this idea that Tomlinson has become an easy target for those that want Hurst out - I think that's an oversimplification as well. I've got a blanced view on Hurst, and I think it makes sense to sign Tomlinson on an extended loan now JPP is injured.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

In spite of what I have said elsewhere about Bogle & Amond, I am not craving that they are picked as a partnership tomorrow.

Tomlinson is a certain type of player and he's good at what he does like LJL. If he had a better goals potential he might even be playing in the FL instead of on loan to us. My point has always been that Tomlinson is a symptom of how Hurst wants his side to play. He is quite prepared to give up the goalscoring talent of Amond and Bogle for the non-stop running and tracking back of Tomlinson and rely on a clean sheet for a result.

The other side of this of course is that Bogle and Amond are a waste of money. What did he sign them for? He could have got six Tomlinsons for one Bogle if that's the way he wants the team to play.

This.

I don't think there's anything wrong with signing Tomlinson on an extended loan per se, especially as JPP is now injured. but the points made by you RRFC stand solid IMO. I'd use Tomlinson as a sub, and as cover, or in certain away games. My view is that Tomlinson has strengths, but we carry a very clearly diminished goal threat if he plays instead of Bogle or Amond, both of whom are contracted, and have been prolific for us thus far. My general view is that it is nonsensical, and in fact damaging to leave our contracted, effective, dangerous, goalscoring strikers out in favour of a non-scoring/assisting, hot headed, clealy inferior quality but hard running loanee.

Quoted from grimsby pete

Arsenal are the masters of defensive football,

Yes they try and play attractive football but defence is the key,

Now let me think, when did they last win the championship ?

The most successful teams attack and have goal scorers in their team,

Come on Mr Hurst we would rather win 4 -2 than 1-0.

Play a more attacking team.

Can't agree with that. Anyone who bases their defence around Mertesacker isn't that serious about defence - he's got the turning circle of a 200000 tonne oil tanker.

When comparing Tomlinson to LJL and his 20 goals, stats can be deceptive, Shop was not really an out and out goalscorer.

In the same way that Liam Hearn did not score in his first 11 games for Town.  In those games though he came very close on many occasions.  He certainly gave the clear impression that he knew where the goal was. Hw soon became a confident and prolific scorer for us that season.

Quoted from Abdul19

With Pittman injured we'd only have 2 strikers if he wasn't re-signed, so it makes sense. I still want him on the bench tomorrow though.

Thats the problem in a nutshell, if we have Tomlinson for a few more weeks (until he scores and then Barnet will want him back pronto) he will play all games plus another either one of Bogle or Podge

Quoted from chaos33

This.

I don't think there's anything wrong with signing Tomlinson on an extended loan per se, especially as JPP is now injured. but the points made by you RRFC stand solid IMO. I'd use Tomlinson as a sub, and as cover, or in certain away games. My view is that Tomlinson has strengths, but we carry a very clearly diminished goal threat if he plays instead of Bogle or Amond, both of whom are contracted, and have been prolific for us thus far. My general view is that it is nonsensical, and in fact damaging to leave our contracted, effective, dangerous, goalscoring strikers out in favour of a non-scoring/assisting, hot headed, clealy inferior quality but hard running loanee.

Pretty much spot on IMO.

Quoted from chaos33

Bogle and Amond haven't really played together as a partnership against the 'stronger teams', or at least, not enough to really judge that, so that's untested really.
I think the idea that Tomlinson has scored more goals than Amond at a lower level is spurious, and not really like you. Honestly, in your opinion, who is the better footballer? The better striker? I think it's absolutely uncontestable.

As for this idea that Tomlinson has become an easy target for those that want Hurst out - I think that's an oversimplification as well. I've got a blanced view on Hurst, and I think it makes sense to sign Tomlinson on an extended loan now JPP is injured.

It doesn't matter who is the 'better' footballer as much as the more 'effective' footballer. I don't disagree that Bogle and Amond have more ability than Tomlinson, but Bogle, especially, has yet to prove he can use this ability against the stronger defenders of the better teams. Let's not forget he's not played against professionals too much as yet so it is understandable that he might struggle at times. I certainly think he's got plenty of potential but we've only seen it in fits and starts so far.

Amond is a different case as I think his movement is so good that I'd certainly have played him more, whether with Pittman, Tomlinson or Bogle. He's a player who won't be too involved in anything but attacking play, but that's probably OK, just as long as the rest of the team can cover for him. Think he missed out a bit due to his injury then Pittman and Tomlinson were doing well as a partnership (two wins and a draw) so he didn't get straight back in. Bogle and Amond together, though? Less than convinced.

Obviously, I'd be very happy to see a Bogle/Amond partnership knocking in goals left, right and centre. However, from what I've seen of them playing together, I can understand why Hurst has preferred to play Tomlinson in the past handful of games.