Tomlinson "surprise"

[url]http://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/Grimsby-Town-early-talks-extend-Ben-Tomlinson-s/story-27967449-detail/story.html[/url]


Well, well, well, I would never have guessed.......... how very predictable.

He certainly has 'added something different to what we have already got '.

Well if jpp is injured it makes sense to have him here..... Think he's being unfairly critiscised,  because of everyone wanting the Bogle/amond partnership ( and dont get me wrong I do too!) but i dont think he's been that bad imo

Its all part of Hurst's cunning plan,

Hurst wanted him for 3 months and Tomlinson was happy to come for 3 months,

Barnet however wanted to see how he got on with the option of getting him back after a month
full of goals and confidence,

So Hurst said do not score any goals pass the ball for your partner to score every time,

Barnet will not want you back so we then can extend the loan for a further 2 months,

Do not score more than 1 goal in the next 2 months,

Then we can sign you for peanuts on a permanent contract,

Once signed on a long contract you can start banging the goals in.

Very cute is our Paul.

Something everyone knew was coming .

Tomlinson is the new Robinson. Regardless of how he plays, he's the figurehead to those who want rid of the manager so he can never do any right. Against Gateshead, there were moans and groans among the crowd when he miscontrolled the ball early on that our other strikers wouldn't have received. He's not been brilliant for us but I understand that he was apparently a lot more involved than Bogle against Braintree. He was a lot more involved than JPP against Gateshead and FGR (though Pittman did obviously score a nice goal in that one), so he's not an empty shirt.

For me, Tomlinson looks a decent enough player at this level but his lack of goals so far is obviously disappointing. I'm surprised he's not been tried with Amond just yet. Wonder if we'll see that tomorrow?

Those who criticise Tomlinson's lack of goals so far should remember that Hearn didn't score until his 11th appearance for the club - I don't remember too many people getting on his back so quickly!

If Tomlinson is going to stay, he will hopefully bag a goal tomorrow (assuming he plays) to silence the doubters, then more after that.

He is LJL writ large. I thought we'd got over that particular style of non-scoring striker.

I don't understand this getting fed with Hurst if i'm honest Amond is going to join the list of forwards who don't get played Andy Cook, Ross Hannah and now Padraig Amond don't undersand the reasons why he's not getting a look in.

I am also baffled ( again ) by Hurst,

If Amond did nothing but score now and again and did little else you could understand dropping him,

BUT

He has not only scored 16 goals in all matches he runs his socks off working for the team,

He has not had a fair share of the whip imo.

Quoted from fiveallive

I don't understand this getting fed with Hurst if i'm honest Amond is going to join the list of forwards who don't get played Andy Cook, Ross Hannah and now Padraig Amond don't undersand the reasons why he's not getting a look in.

because hurst has not got a clue what he is doing

Quoted from Theimperialcoroner

He is LJL writ large. I thought we'd got over that particular style of non-scoring striker.

You mean 20-goal LJL (2014/15) and 18 & 14-goal Ben Tomlinson (2013/14 & 2014/15)?

Quoted from immariner

You mean 20-goal LJL (2014/15) and 18 & 14-goal Ben Tomlinson (2013/14 & 2014/15)?

Yep I mean the cows bottom/banjo LJL who only got to 20 goals because of a few penalties. One of which at Dartford was followed by mocking his own fans with a his hand to his ear. Can't forgive twattish behaviour like that.
My old man could've scored 20 goals playing in that team last season and his knees are bolloxed.
I also get the need for strikers to have some of the dark arts and to defend from the front, but think Bogle/Amond can offer that and also offer goals. Something Lennie didn't really do and nor does Tomlinson.

I was very critical of him on Saturday when he squared it for Bogle rather than shooting in an ideal position.  But he isn't that bad a player and certainly offers us something.  In fact for all the craving for a Bogle,Amond partnership back again I wouldn't at all mind Tomlinson and Amond as I think they could work very well together.  This loan seems to make sense then I think.

Agree that some people are enjoying using Tomlinson as a stick with which to beat Hurst, however while I think he could be be a useful player for us give him a break so he can get some confidence back and shoot when a good opportunity is there!

Quoted from immariner

You mean 20-goal LJL (2014/15) and 18 & 14-goal Ben Tomlinson (2013/14 & 2014/15)?

Which just goes to show that you can make stats fit any argument. I think that the fairest thing you can say is that Tomlinson isn't a natural goalscorer and nor was Lenny.

As I've pointed out in the past, Tomlinson has scored more goals than Amond in each of the past 3 seasons, albeit in a division lower. But that is neither here nor there and ignores the fact that we are comparing apples to oranges. Tomlinson does things in a game that Amond doesn't. If Amond could do that work as well, he'd be playing at a higher level.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see Amond play more because he's a clever player with fantastic movement which should cause problems at this level, but I'm not convinced that the Bogle/Amond partnership offers enough up top against the stronger teams.

Wouldn't surprise me to see a Bogle/Amond partnership tomorrow, however, with Halifax struggling so badly at the back. You'd think they ought to be able to score a few and their relative lack of 'defensive' work shouldn't be such an issue.

Quoted from Maringer

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see Amond play more because he's a clever player with fantastic movement which should cause problems at this level, but I'm not convinced that the Bogle/Amond partnership offers enough up top against the stronger teams.

Wouldn't surprise me to see a Bogle/Amond partnership tomorrow, however, with Halifax struggling so badly at the back. You'd think they ought to be able to score a few and their relative lack of 'defensive' work shouldn't be such an issue.

Well it would be nice to see them given a chance against the top teams rather than being sat getting splinters in their @rses.

Well its paul's job on the line and most certainly his last chance at it so now i just say let him do what he wants , quite funny actually that he sees him the best we can do.

Good choice paul, great signing

In spite of what I have said elsewhere about Bogle & Amond, I am not craving that they are picked as a partnership tomorrow.

Tomlinson is a certain type of player and he's good at what he does like LJL. If he had a better goals potential he might even be playing in the FL instead of on loan to us. My point has always been that Tomlinson is a symptom of how Hurst wants his side to play. He is quite prepared to give up the goalscoring talent of Amond and Bogle for the non-stop running and tracking back of Tomlinson and rely on a clean sheet for a result.

The other side of this of course is that Bogle and Amond are a waste of money. What did he sign them for? He could have got six Tomlinsons for one Bogle if that's the way he wants the team to play.

We needed a fourth striker before JPP got injured and we need one even more now, so extending his loan was inevitable as Hurst couldn't seem to find the target man he was seeking. I've been impressed with Tomlinson's work rate and team ethic but he needs to start notching a few or we are going to end up the same as we did last season. His record is quite good over the last 2 seasons, seeing as he was playing for a side that weren't tearing up many trees. Got mixed feelings about this as i really thought we had found the goalscorers we lacked last campaign in Bogle and Amond. Hurst thinks differently.  

I actually dont mind the lad.Yes I have seen him play only one game but he did catch my eye with his work ethic and enthusiasm.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

In spite of what I have said elsewhere about Bogle & Amond, I am not craving that they are picked as a partnership tomorrow.

Tomlinson is a certain type of player and he's good at what he does like LJL. If he had a better goals potential he might even be playing in the FL instead of on loan to us. My point has always been that Tomlinson is a symptom of how Hurst wants his side to play. He is quite prepared to give up the goalscoring talent of Amond and Bogle for the non-stop running and tracking back of Tomlinson and rely on a clean sheet for a result.

The other side of this of course is that Bogle and Amond are a waste of money. What did he sign them for? He could have got six Tomlinsons for one Bogle if that's the way he wants the team to play.

Ron , tomlinson is a paul hurst ideal signing and fits into what he wants and how he wants to play at the minute.

The ball out the back launched up to monkhouse and looking for tomlinson to use his physical side and hope for something to happen , if im being honest amond and bogle do not fit into it.

They both like the ball into feet and to turn there man and run at the defence ,amond is also a great poacher and is it any coincidence they both scored goals when we were actually trying to play football.

Paul then did what paul does and reverted to type and then came the launch ball of a sudden, so frustrating as we are lucky to have amond and bogle and they needed sticking by and showing some faith in them but no they were out the team as soon as paul had a whiff of a longball.

Quoted from jonnyboy82

Ron , tomlinson is a paul hurst ideal signing and fits into what he wants and how he wants to play at the minute.

The ball out the back launched up to monkhouse and looking for tomlinson to use his physical side and hope for something to happen , if im being honest amond and bogle do not fit into it.

They both like the ball into feet and to turn there man and run at the defence ,amond is also a great poacher and is it any coincidence they both scored goals when we were actually trying to play football.

Paul then did what paul does and reverted to type and then came the launch ball of a sudden, so frustrating as we are lucky to have amond and bogle and they needed sticking by and showing some faith in them but no they were out the team as soon as paul had a whiff of a longball.

Does he like the long ball game though? Iam sure if you asked him one on one he would like us playing football thats mixed up ie short,long ,quick slow.However you can only work with whats at your disposal.Money talks at the end of the day and players are at this level(no disrespect) for a reason

No goals,no assists, two yellow cards, moans alot, works hard, helps us keep a clean sheet..........that would look ace on his C.V if he was a centre back.

With Pittman injured we'd only have 2 strikers if he wasn't re-signed, so it makes sense. I still want him on the bench tomorrow though.

If we have ambition to come top of this table we have to play with some ambition. Plenty of teams can do the long ball tactics better than we can and to suggest we don't have the talent does Arnold, Dis, Amond, Clay etc a disservice.  Paul might not realise this but he works in the entertainment industry and at the moment there are a large numbers of fans who are not entertained.  I am certainly not travelling from Leeds to see us hoof the ballup to Monkhouse and hope Tomlinson picks up the scraps. Stop being such a dour, negative misery Paul and let the players play like we know they can.

Loads of good teams over the past 20years never had a big lump up front with little to no footballing ability so why do we have to have one?
Is it purely because the manager wants his team to hoof it down the middle or is there another reason - please enlighten me

Arsenal are the masters of defensive football,

Yes they try and play attractive football but defence is the key,

Now let me think, when did they last win the championship ?

The most successful teams attack and have goal scorers in their team,

Come on Mr Hurst we would rather win 4 -2 than 1-0.

Play a more attacking team.

Quoted from Maringer

Tomlinson is the new Robinson. Regardless of how he plays, he's the figurehead to those who want rid of the manager so he can never do any right. Against Gateshead, there were moans and groans among the crowd when he miscontrolled the ball early on that our other strikers wouldn't have received. He's not been brilliant for us but I understand that he was apparently a lot more involved than Bogle against Braintree. He was a lot more involved than JPP against Gateshead and FGR (though Pittman did obviously score a nice goal in that one), so he's not an empty shirt.

For me, Tomlinson looks a decent enough player at this level but his lack of goals so far is obviously disappointing. I'm surprised he's not been tried with Amond just yet. Wonder if we'll see that tomorrow?

Those who criticise Tomlinson's lack of goals so far should remember that Hearn didn't score until his 11th appearance for the club - I don't remember too many people getting on his back so quickly!

If Tomlinson is going to stay, he will hopefully bag a goal tomorrow (assuming he plays) to silence the doubters, then more after that.

Disagree that Tomlinson is 'the figurehead to those who want rid of the manager' I'm in the Hurst out camp but I'm glad he may be staying
He's not the new Robinson because Robinson is the outfield equivalent of Tommy Forecast and he's nowhere near as bad as that.
I do agree that Tomlinson does look 'a decent enough player at this level' and think he's done ok and given his all for Town. If he stays for a bit longer the goals will come.

Quoted from Rick12

Does he like the long ball game though? Iam sure if you asked him one on one he would like us playing football thats mixed up ie short,long ,quick slow.However you can only work with whats at your disposal.Money talks at the end of the day and players are at this level(no disrespect) for a reason

Actions speak louder than words Rick.

Quoted from TAGG

Disagree that Tomlinson is 'the figurehead to those who want rid of the manager' I'm in the Hurst out camp but I'm glad he may be staying
He's not the new Robinson because Robinson is the outfield equivalent of Tommy Forecast and he's nowhere near as bad as that.
I do agree that Tomlinson does look 'a decent enough player at this level' and think he's done ok and given his all for Town. If he stays for a bit longer the goals will come.

The statement, "Robinson is the outfield equivalent of Tommy Forecast" is just ridiculous. He did OK during his spell with us - not spectacularly well, by any means, but OK. Some took against him from the very start because they thought Clay had been dropped to bring him into the team, which we now know wasn't the case. This is a player, lest we forget, who made 27 appearances for Luton Town in their dominant promotion season when he was just a teenager so comparing him with Tommy Forecast (total career appearances: 13) is nonsense. The Kiddy fans spoke very highly of him from his loan spell, as I recall.

However, regardless of your comments about Robinson, I'm pleased that you agree Tomlinson is a decent enough loan signing. I do have to say that I'm not sure he's what we need longer-term because I think we still need somebody who is capable in the air to give us a different option and Tomlinson is not a target man. I reckon Hurst was caught out here because thought that Bogle would be able to challenge decently in the air due to his size. However, we've seen that this isn't the case so it is something we really lack. Almost certainly why Monkhouse is almost the first name on the team sheet as we need somebody who can win some headers in attack.

Quoted from grimsby pete

Arsenal are the masters of defensive football,

Yes they try and play attractive football but defence is the key,

Now let me think, when did they last win the championship ?

The most successful teams attack and have goal scorers in their team,

Come on Mr Hurst we would rather win 4 -2 than 1-0.

Play a more attacking team.

This is just simply untrue. Arsenal scored the third highest amount of goals last season, hardly a defensive side.

Defences do win championships. If you don't concede many your chances of winning games where you don't play well increases as you only need to scrape a lucky goal off someone's bottom to win. However, PH's problem is that he cannot set up a defence sufficiently without sacrificing some attacking intent. For his, and our, sake, I hope he finds a way of getting the most out of our talented forwards and to stop the silly goals going in against us like at the start of the season. Having said all that, a lot of them were individual errors which won't always occur and I fear he has panicked and gone back to what he knows best which unfortunately will not make the most of this squad's potential.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Actions speak louder than words Rick.

True Ron.Iam not saying Tomlinson should be a starter though just a useful backup to have given how hard he works and to be fair from what I saw against Forest Green did try to make some positive runs into their box

Quoted from grimsby pete

Arsenal are the masters of defensive football,

George Graham left more than 20 years ago!

Quoted from Maringer

As I've pointed out in the past, Tomlinson has scored more goals than Amond in each of the past 3 seasons, albeit in a division lower. But that is neither here nor there and ignores the fact that we are comparing apples to oranges. Tomlinson does things in a game that Amond doesn't. If Amond could do that work as well, he'd be playing at a higher level.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see Amond play more because he's a clever player with fantastic movement which should cause problems at this level, but I'm not convinced that the Bogle/Amond partnership offers enough up top against the stronger teams.

Wouldn't surprise me to see a Bogle/Amond partnership tomorrow, however, with Halifax struggling so badly at the back. You'd think they ought to be able to score a few and their relative lack of 'defensive' work shouldn't be such an issue.

Bogle and Amond haven't really played together as a partnership against the 'stronger teams', or at least, not enough to really judge that, so that's untested really.
I think the argument that Tomlinson has scored more goals than Amond at a lower level is spurious, or at least, flawed, and not really like you. Honestly, in your opinion, who is the better footballer? The better striker? I think it's absolutely uncontestable.

As for this idea that Tomlinson has become an easy target for those that want Hurst out - I think that's an oversimplification as well. I've got a blanced view on Hurst, and I think it makes sense to sign Tomlinson on an extended loan now JPP is injured.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

In spite of what I have said elsewhere about Bogle & Amond, I am not craving that they are picked as a partnership tomorrow.

Tomlinson is a certain type of player and he's good at what he does like LJL. If he had a better goals potential he might even be playing in the FL instead of on loan to us. My point has always been that Tomlinson is a symptom of how Hurst wants his side to play. He is quite prepared to give up the goalscoring talent of Amond and Bogle for the non-stop running and tracking back of Tomlinson and rely on a clean sheet for a result.

The other side of this of course is that Bogle and Amond are a waste of money. What did he sign them for? He could have got six Tomlinsons for one Bogle if that's the way he wants the team to play.

This.

I don't think there's anything wrong with signing Tomlinson on an extended loan per se, especially as JPP is now injured. but the points made by you RRFC stand solid IMO. I'd use Tomlinson as a sub, and as cover, or in certain away games. My view is that Tomlinson has strengths, but we carry a very clearly diminished goal threat if he plays instead of Bogle or Amond, both of whom are contracted, and have been prolific for us thus far. My general view is that it is nonsensical, and in fact damaging to leave our contracted, effective, dangerous, goalscoring strikers out in favour of a non-scoring/assisting, hot headed, clealy inferior quality but hard running loanee.

Quoted from grimsby pete

Arsenal are the masters of defensive football,

Yes they try and play attractive football but defence is the key,

Now let me think, when did they last win the championship ?

The most successful teams attack and have goal scorers in their team,

Come on Mr Hurst we would rather win 4 -2 than 1-0.

Play a more attacking team.

Can't agree with that. Anyone who bases their defence around Mertesacker isn't that serious about defence - he's got the turning circle of a 200000 tonne oil tanker.

When comparing Tomlinson to LJL and his 20 goals, stats can be deceptive, Shop was not really an out and out goalscorer.

In the same way that Liam Hearn did not score in his first 11 games for Town.  In those games though he came very close on many occasions.  He certainly gave the clear impression that he knew where the goal was. Hw soon became a confident and prolific scorer for us that season.

Quoted from Abdul19

With Pittman injured we'd only have 2 strikers if he wasn't re-signed, so it makes sense. I still want him on the bench tomorrow though.

Thats the problem in a nutshell, if we have Tomlinson for a few more weeks (until he scores and then Barnet will want him back pronto) he will play all games plus another either one of Bogle or Podge

Quoted from chaos33

This.

I don't think there's anything wrong with signing Tomlinson on an extended loan per se, especially as JPP is now injured. but the points made by you RRFC stand solid IMO. I'd use Tomlinson as a sub, and as cover, or in certain away games. My view is that Tomlinson has strengths, but we carry a very clearly diminished goal threat if he plays instead of Bogle or Amond, both of whom are contracted, and have been prolific for us thus far. My general view is that it is nonsensical, and in fact damaging to leave our contracted, effective, dangerous, goalscoring strikers out in favour of a non-scoring/assisting, hot headed, clealy inferior quality but hard running loanee.

Pretty much spot on IMO.

Quoted from chaos33

Bogle and Amond haven't really played together as a partnership against the 'stronger teams', or at least, not enough to really judge that, so that's untested really.
I think the idea that Tomlinson has scored more goals than Amond at a lower level is spurious, and not really like you. Honestly, in your opinion, who is the better footballer? The better striker? I think it's absolutely uncontestable.

As for this idea that Tomlinson has become an easy target for those that want Hurst out - I think that's an oversimplification as well. I've got a blanced view on Hurst, and I think it makes sense to sign Tomlinson on an extended loan now JPP is injured.

It doesn't matter who is the 'better' footballer as much as the more 'effective' footballer. I don't disagree that Bogle and Amond have more ability than Tomlinson, but Bogle, especially, has yet to prove he can use this ability against the stronger defenders of the better teams. Let's not forget he's not played against professionals too much as yet so it is understandable that he might struggle at times. I certainly think he's got plenty of potential but we've only seen it in fits and starts so far.

Amond is a different case as I think his movement is so good that I'd certainly have played him more, whether with Pittman, Tomlinson or Bogle. He's a player who won't be too involved in anything but attacking play, but that's probably OK, just as long as the rest of the team can cover for him. Think he missed out a bit due to his injury then Pittman and Tomlinson were doing well as a partnership (two wins and a draw) so he didn't get straight back in. Bogle and Amond together, though? Less than convinced.

Obviously, I'd be very happy to see a Bogle/Amond partnership knocking in goals left, right and centre. However, from what I've seen of them playing together, I can understand why Hurst has preferred to play Tomlinson in the past handful of games.

Quoted from TownSNAFU5

In the same way that Liam Hearn did not score in his first 11 games for Town.  In those games though he came very close on many occasions.  He certainly gave the clear impression that he knew where the goal was. Hw soon became a confident and prolific scorer for us that season.

Hearn ultimately did very well that season and scored 27 Conference goals whilst Elding scored a dozen, Duffy got 8 and Coulson got 8 more from the wing, yet we finished in 11th place, 11 points behind the last play-off spot and with a much poorer goal difference than we managed last year.

A good indication why you need to consider the defence as much as the attack which is probably why Hurst thinks a Bogle/Amond partnership isn't always our best pairing.

Quoted from Maringer

It doesn't matter who is the 'better' footballer as much as the more 'effective' footballer. I don't disagree that Bogle and Amond have more ability than Tomlinson, but Bogle, especially, has yet to prove he can use this ability against the stronger defenders of the better teams. Let's not forget he's not played against professionals too much as yet so it is understandable that he might struggle at times. I certainly think he's got plenty of potential but we've only seen it in fits and starts so far.

Amond is a different case as I think his movement is so good that I'd certainly have played him more, whether with Pittman, Tomlinson or Bogle. He's a player who won't be too involved in anything but attacking play, but that's probably OK, just as long as the rest of the team can cover for him. Think he missed out a bit due to his injury then Pittman and Tomlinson were doing well as a partnership (two wins and a draw) so he didn't get straight back in. Bogle and Amond together, though? Less than convinced.

Obviously, I'd be very happy to see a Bogle/Amond partnership knocking in goals left, right and centre. However, from what I've seen of them playing together, I can understand why Hurst has preferred to play Tomlinson in the past handful of games.

First part - come on. you're splitting hairs here Maringer. What do you mean 'effective'? Effective at what? Scoring goals? Closing down defenders? Being a nuisance? Setting up chances and causing problems? I repeat - who are the better players? Amond and Bogle are much better than Tomlinson, in essence IMO. And they both carry a far greater goal (and assist) threat, and that is supported by the current facts.

The second bit - I'd say that Bogle is yet to prove that because he hasn't been gven a fair chance to.

For me, Bogle is the type of player who needs to be persevered with. For a manager to show faith and patience in. He's got a 3 year contract and we've paid a fee for him after laying patient seige. Hurst dropped him like hot sh1t! He has proven that he will score goals in differernt scenarios, and that he may also get you a goal out of nothing; with a flash of something skilful or unpredictable.
He looks like he would score 20 - 30 goals this season. Why on earth would he not be playing?!

Amond is simply a much better class of player than both at the moment. A great finisher with both feet or head, and with superb movement, positional play and workrate. They are both not going to have blinding games and score 2 and 3 goals apiece each week, but they need to be backed by the manager. To be persevered with. To be forgiven for an 'out of sorts' game, or a few missed chances here and there because they pop up with a winner regularly, or they score on a frequent basis, and make their own chances, and poach, and all the rest of it. This is how they hone their technique, learn about each other's play, and grow their confidence. Bogle and Amond are great assets in my opinion. We don't need Tomlinson. Hurst has cut his nose off to spite his face because his defence got sloppy and made some repeated basic errors, we conceded a couple of freak or special goals, and our centre midfield dynamic isn't/wasn't strong enough. He panicked and reverted to his default setting.

Quoted from chaos33

First part - come on. you're splitting hairs here Maringer. What do you mean 'effective'? Effective at what? Scoring goals? Closing down defenders? Being a nuisance? Setting up chances and causing problems? I repeat - who are the better players? Amond and Bogle are much better than Tomlinson, in essence IMO. And they both carry a far greater goal (and assist) threat, and that is supported by the current facts.

The second bit - I'd say that Bogle is yet to prove that because he hasn't been gven a fair chance to.

For me, Bogle is the type of player who needs to be persevered with. For a manager to show faith and patience in. He's got a 3 year contract and we've paid a fee for him after laying patient seige. Hurst dropped him like hot sh1t! He has proven that he will score goals in differernt scenarios, and that he may also get you a goal out of nothing; with a flash of something skilful or unpredictable.
He looks like he would score 20 - 30 goals this season. Why on earth would he not be playing?!

Amond is simply a much better class of player than both at the moment. A great finisher with both feet or head, and with superb movement, positional play and workrate. They are both not going to have blinding games and score 2 and 3 goals apiece each week, but they need to be backed by the manager. To be persevered with. To be forgiven for an 'out of sorts' game, or a few missed chances here and there because they pop up with a winner regularly, or they score on a frequent basis, and make their own chances, and poach, and all the rest of it. This is how they hone their technique, learn about each other's play, and grow their confidence. Bogle and Amond are great assets in my opinion. We don't need Tomlinson. Hurst has cut his nose off to spite his face because his defence got sloppy and made some repeated basic errors, we conceded a couple of freak or special goals, and our centre midfield dynamic isn't/wasn't strong enough. He panicked and reverted to his default setting.

Great post again chaos  

Quoted from Maringer

Hearn ultimately did very well that season and scored 27 Conference goals whilst Elding scored a dozen, Duffy got 8 and Coulson got 8 more from the wing, yet we finished in 11th place, 11 points behind the last play-off spot and with a much poorer goal difference than we managed last year.

A good indication why you need to consider the defence as much as the attack which is probably why Hurst thinks a Bogle/Amond partnership isn't always our best pairing.

Yes mate, ss much as I'm debating you on other points I think this is an excellent overall point you make here. I take that on board.

By 'effective', I mean 'effective' at helping the team to win games.

As my post earlier in the thread notes, Hearn scored a hatful of goals in his first season, Elding scored a good few and Duffy and Coulson got respectable totals yet we came nowhere near winning enough games to get close to success that year.

Would we have done better that season had Hearn and Elding not gone for all-out attack and done little bit more defensively? Perhaps.

Would we have won more points this season had Bogle and Amond started most of the games when fit? Perhaps.

Fact is, we've been unbeaten in all 5 of the games which Tomlinson has started, 3 of which were against teams in the top 5. Hurst has obviously decided that he adds more to the team than he takes away. Whether or not he is right remains to be seen, but I don't buy into the idea that simply picking Bogle and Amond will be enough to fire our way to promotion this season.

NO

Quoted from Maringer

By 'effective', I mean 'effective' at helping the team to win games.

As my post earlier in the thread notes, Hearn scored a hatful of goals in his first season, Elding scored a good few and Duffy and Coulson got respectable totals yet we came nowhere near winning enough games to get close to success that year.

Would we have done better that season had Hearn and Elding not gone for all-out attack and done little bit more defensively? Perhaps.

Would we have won more points this season had Bogle and Amond started most of the games when fit? Perhaps.

Fact is, we've been unbeaten in all 5 of the games which Tomlinson has started, 3 of which were against teams in the top 5. Hurst has obviously decided that he adds more to the team than he takes away. Whether or not he is right remains to be seen, but I don't buy into the idea that simply picking Bogle and Amond will be enough to fire our way to promotion this season.

No, again I think its a good overall point you're making. I'm not saying though that it would be enough to fire us to promotion in and of itself, but I really do think it would make a massive contribution if we could refine our defensive and midfield qualities though! You could honestly see Bogle and Amond perhaps getting 20 goals apiece. We've certainly got good enough players in the other 9 starting positions to chip in with a real promotion push on the back of that kind of striking return. We might be unbeaten in all 5 of the games that Tomlinson has started, but we've only won two of them, and he's scored no goals and providded no assists. Not special, and that's being kind. I fancy we might have done a bit better witn Amond in the team.

Just 2 pennorth on Bogle and Amond. Their ability is now irrelevant. By that I mean the die was cast some time ago that they would not operate as a pair and they would only play if someone was injured or as subs.

For them to play as a pair it would have had to happen earlier and by this time they would have played 16 games together. The manager decided he had seen enough to make a decision on that after 3 or 4 games because he was not prepared to alter the way the rest of the team played, or he didn't have the players to alter the way the rest of the team played, to accomodate them. Hence the arrival of Tomlinson. We all thought that he was back up for pittman but we should have taken note of the manager's words when he said he offers something different.

No. Sorry but Bogle/Amond will not happen by choice now. We are just about hanging on to the leaders and Hurst is not going to take any sort of gamble. He's a percentage manager not a brave one. It could have been good. We could be up with FGR or could have been where we are now. But he was never going to change his system and unless something remarkable happens his logic dictates they will be bit players from now on.

Great post Chaos, ive been pro Hurst but really hacked off over all this. My fear is Bogle and Amond both being knocked out their stride and who knows may struggle to get back firing again if and when their chances arrive. Their inability to make a marked difference in their odd occasions from the bench seem to point this way already. They'll soon be lacking match fitness at this rate.

They could come back in and be rusty, a bit duff and some will say 'oh well I told you so Bogle got a lot to learn/can't do it against big teams' etc etc but the fact is before we ripped apart our strikeforce Bogle looked nailed on for getting on 30 goals and Amond 20. They were just building up their partnership and if left alone could have developed an almost telepathic understanding which would rip through defences like a hot knife through butter.

I would have had no problem with rotating JPP in to freshen up if we playing Tuesday, Saturday, Tuesday and even Tomlinson occasionally for tactical reasons against big brutish sides or when expected to be under the cosh (i.e. Wrexham away) -or to bring on to mix it up but to just bin Bogle and Amond like he has is nothing short of criminal and extremely poor management of strikers!

To have Warrington coming out in press eulogising over 'Tommo' while our contracted men have been openly criticised (Amond inability to head, Bogle a whiner etc) just adds to rub me up the wrong way.

I wonder if there has been some kind of spat behind closed doors it seems that way, or we not been kept in the loop on fitness issues. We had Hurst mocking Bogle saying he always needing something strapped up then Amond suddenly was reported out the blue to have previously been injured which didn't add up.

Personally think Hurst should come out in public and explain wtf is going on, be it some propaganda just to get us back on side or the nitty gritty truth. Of course he will feel he shouldn't have to but it's causing that much resentment amongst the faithful he really should be made to explain himself.

At best I hope it's a Hurst masterplan in teaching his contracted front men "right, this is the kind of hard work I demand from you" ala Mourinho to Hazard last year but my gut tells me Tomlinson will play every. single. game possible while here.

As a side note get the feeling that Hurst could end up being detrimental to Bogle's development by trying to mould him too much (-but that could have a thread all of its own so will not go into deeply here) instead of encouraging his natural game with a few minor tweaks. I look at goals -and he already had a hateful.

I wonder who our opposition would dread to be defending against most?

It's nothing against Tomlinson personally, just this has been handled all wrong -great to have a different option but all the work of preseason and team building an understanding to be ripped apart to revert to type... okay we've been marginally better off points wise and it's Hursty's neck on the block if we don't accrue but surely it's the defenders individual errors which cost us so much before which have now settled a bit, Macca back on form etc (but hey Hurst analyses everything much much thoroughly than I, I'm sure).

It just seems so backward and moreover smacks of ambling into the playoffs rather than going all guns blazing for the title for me. I could go on but think I've covered crux of the matter.

Being a bit neutral all of a sudden, on this particular sticking point at least, I can see both sides make dome great points but both come out with not-so-good points and statistics to try and one - up their points for or against. I just about remain pro-Hurst but like I said I'd like for him to come out and explain his reasoning to reassure me I'm right in keeping my faith in him. And not some snide  snappy pop at fans for daring to question him

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Just 2 pennorth on Bogle and Amond. Their ability is now irrelevant. By that I mean the die was cast some time ago that they would not operate as a pair and they would only play if someone was injured or as subs.

For them to play as a pair it would have had to happen earlier and by this time they would have played 16 games together. The manager decided he had seen enough to make a decision on that after 3 or 4 games because he was not prepared to alter the way the rest of the team played, or he didn't have the players to alter the way the rest of the team played, to accomodate them. Hence the arrival of Tomlinson. We all thought that he was back up for pittman but we should have taken note of the manager's words when he said he offers something different.

No. Sorry but Bogle/Amond will not happen by choice now. We are just about hanging on to the leaders and Hurst is not going to take any sort of gamble. He's a percentage manager not a brave one. It could have been good. We could be up with FGR or could have been where we are now. But he was never going to change his system and unless something remarkable happens his logic dictates they will be bit players from now on.

I hope you're wrong. This could be an absolutely massive call IMO.

Hmmm.

Quoted from chaos33

First part - come on. you're splitting hairs here Maringer. What do you mean 'effective'? Effective at what? Scoring goals? Closing down defenders? Being a nuisance? Setting up chances and causing problems? I repeat - who are the better players? Amond and Bogle are much better than Tomlinson, in essence IMO. And they both carry a far greater goal (and assist) threat, and that is supported by the current facts.

The second bit - I'd say that Bogle is yet to prove that because he hasn't been gven a fair chance to.

For me, Bogle is the type of player who needs to be persevered with. For a manager to show faith and patience in. He's got a 3 year contract and we've paid a fee for him after laying patient seige. Hurst dropped him like hot sh1t! He has proven that he will score goals in differernt scenarios, and that he may also get you a goal out of nothing; with a flash of something skilful or unpredictable.
He looks like he would score 20 - 30 goals this season. Why on earth would he not be playing?!

Amond is simply a much better class of player than both at the moment. A great finisher with both feet or head, and with superb movement, positional play and workrate. They are both not going to have blinding games and score 2 and 3 goals apiece each week, but they need to be backed by the manager. To be persevered with. To be forgiven for an 'out of sorts' game, or a few missed chances here and there because they pop up with a winner regularly, or they score on a frequent basis, and make their own chances, and poach, and all the rest of it. This is how they hone their technique, learn about each other's play, and grow their confidence. Bogle and Amond are great assets in my opinion. We don't need Tomlinson. Hurst has cut his nose off to spite his face because his defence got sloppy and made some repeated basic errors, we conceded a couple of freak or special goals, and our centre midfield dynamic isn't/wasn't strong enough. He panicked and reverted to his default setting.

Well said, Mr Fenty take note.
Goals get points, points get promotion end of.

Fans are not entertained by players that are just good at running around if they were they'd save their money and watch athletics. While the players are there that can do the job and entertain the fans but are not being played they will keep their money and stay at home.
It seems to me Mr Fenty is frightened of his own history of picking manager's and is prepared to stick with his nearly man and hope for a big slice of luck or he is easily entertained.

FFS hope he scores a hat trick tonight that's the best two fingered salute he could do.

As usual Mrs Doyle, a great contribution (including the ubiquitous swearing) to what has been an informed, even handed and friendly discussion with no insults.

Quoted from Mrs Doyle

FFS hope he scores a hat trick tonight that's the best two fingered salute he could do.

Good morning mrs doyle  

Why are you always so angry ?

Have enjoyed this thread's debate.

Something skipped over a little is the fact that we have 4 strikers currently; 2 who are new permanent signings, Podge from the league, Omar from lower leagues.
We have JPP who sadly continues to have injury problems but has been scoring, and Tomlinson, who is a National League striker who has scored goals and earned himself a move to a league club, found himself out of their side, come here and worked his socks off, and hopefully tonight will open his GTFC account. We are lucky to have 4 such good strikers; spoilt for choice!

Also how come Nathan Arnold is not central to this debate?  Probably because he is our best winger.I don't want him to be moved up front every 5 mins because Tomlinson isnt here and JPP is injured.

For me, if we play a front six of Dis, Clay, Monkhouse and Arnold, then any of our 4 strikers will do.

Finally, if we don't renew the Tomlinson loan, and he goes back, I could see another northern side (Lincoln? even Wrexham), or a southern side if he has digs there, picking him up, and him scoring freely!!!!

Quoted from chaos33

I hope you're wrong. This could be an absolutely massive call IMO.

I hope I'm wrong as well but realistically that's the evidence isn't it? One thing I am pleased about is that people are beginning to understand why Bogle only looks half the player he did in August when he comes on now. The lad's confidence must be shredded and if the manager isn't careful that will get worse not better.

It makes it hard to understand why Hurst signed those players because he is known for doing his homework. Surely he knew what they were like and what sort of side they needed to play in. Not the same level I know but look at the way Wales have altered their game plans to make the most of Bale.

The manager needs to think very carefully here about the impact his selections and team plan now will have on the rest of the season. You are right Chaos, it's a massive call. Is it too strong to say that we are in danger of going from 3 good strikers in August to 4 very average ones in October?

Tommo to score 2 tonight. Can't wait to see his celebration and reaction to the fans. Could be spicy. Go on Tommo you know you want to.

Quoted from Maringer

Tomlinson is the new Robinson. Regardless of how he plays, he's the figurehead to those who want rid of the manager so he can never do any right. Against Gateshead, there were moans and groans among the crowd when he miscontrolled the ball early on that our other strikers wouldn't have received. He's not been brilliant for us but I understand that he was apparently a lot more involved than Bogle against Braintree. He was a lot more involved than JPP against Gateshead and FGR (though Pittman did obviously score a nice goal in that one), so he's not an empty shirt.

For me, Tomlinson looks a decent enough player at this level but his lack of goals so far is obviously disappointing. I'm surprised he's not been tried with Amond just yet. Wonder if we'll see that tomorrow?

Those who criticise Tomlinson's lack of goals so far should remember that Hearn didn't score until his 11th appearance for the club - I don't remember too many people getting on his back so quickly!

If Tomlinson is going to stay, he will hopefully bag a goal tomorrow (assuming he plays) to silence the doubters, then more after that.

I support Paul Hurst as a manager and will continue to do while he is at the club, but Tomlinson and Robinson are absolutely rammel!

Quoted from oldun

Tommo to score 2 tonight. Can't wait to see his celebration and reaction to the fans. Could be spicy. Go on Tommo you know you want to.

If he plays I really hope he scores.  However why woud you want him to antoganize the fans?  Yeah he gets a bit of stick on here but he was hardly signled out for abuse at the weekend.  Apart from a few sarcastic cheers apperently against Gateshead fan have been behind him at matches and he seemed to have a bit of fun with the fans about kicking the water bottle around on Saturday.  

Hust has previously identified we want a sense of togetherness, foster that and share with the fans, we ar supposed to be all in it together, not out to make a point.  

I think we will see the best from both Bogle and Amond, when they are playing together.

To me Bogle appears to be trying too hard which is understandable given that he probably feels that he has to take the chance or he will be bench warming again next game. It has been well documented that he 'beats himself up' when things don't go to plan on the pitch and you can see that from the stands, thumping the ground as I recall last week.

When Amond plays alongside him, I have noticed that he will make a point of going over to Bogle, even when he may be way over the other side of the pitch, to congratulate / encourage / advise or whatever is required. I think that is what Bogle needs. Doig probably shouts encouragement from the bench but there is no substitute for a fellow striker giving words of encouragement in the thick of the action.

Last Tuesday Bogle played Amond down the left wing who returned the ball across the six yard box with Bogle just failing to get on the end of. They immediately joined each other in the box for the obligatory high five. I'm not anti Tomlinson but you rarely see this sort of thing between him and either Bogle or Amond.

I'm not suggesting that these two only play when they are playing together, I just feel that we will see the best of them when they do.

Quoted from NewtoN

I support Paul Hurst as a manager and will continue to do while he is at the club, but Tomlinson and Robinson are absolutely rammel!

Don't be silly. Both are perfectly decent players at this level though it seems pretty obvious that we've not seen the best of them in a GTFC shirt.

Quoted from oldun

Tommo to score 2 tonight. Can't wait to see his celebration and reaction to the fans. Could be spicy. Go on Tommo you know you want to.

Looks like you're on Tommo.... you best get a couple...and I don't mean " in "..... or are you still on the ale in Richmond ????  

Tommo is just one booking away from suspension, so why extend his loan?

After missing out the last game to ensure his hamstrings weren't over worked, I exect Pitman to be back in the starting 11 tonight.

Nobody in any report said that he had torn/damaged a hamstring. Just that he felt some tightness. I would guess that after sitting out for a match and doing some good hamstring stretching work with Dave Moore, that Pitman will be back for this one.

Quoted from Grantham_Mariner

Tommo is just one booking away from suspension, so why extend his loan?

If correct that's a fair consideration.

I definitely think Amond should be starting but I also accept the fact that Hurst sees all of his players day-in-day-out for training.  Personally I think any suggestion that Hurst is targeting Amond as a scapegoat is way off the mark.  This isn't a player he inherited, this is a player he signed himself!

From what Hurst sees in training it could well be that Amond only works well in a pairing with Bogle.  Definitely in pre-season those two were set up as a pairing with JPP and Arnold as the other strike pairing.    Equally so Amond could be carrying an knock that Hurst hasn't declared yet (he is always very coy with injuries) and would struggle to get through more than 20 minutes.

My personal view is that Amond is intelligent enough to work in a pairing with anyone and would personally like to have seen him alongside Tomlinson whilst JPP is out, or indeed with JPP.    I hope tonight we see Amond from the start, we're a better team with in the team.

As said before, I don't think Tomlinson is that bad.  Far from it.  He badly needs a goal though.

Quoted from grimsby pete

Arsenal are the masters of defensive football,

Yes they try and play attractive football but defence is the key,

Now let me think, when did they last win the championship ?

The most successful teams attack and have goal scorers in their team,

Come on Mr Hurst we would rather win 4 -2 than 1-0.

Play a more attacking team.

Can't quite believe you said that about Arsenal! I'm pretty sure most neutral observers (and a few partisan) would agree that Arsenal are probably the only reason to watch premiership football due to their fantastic attacking style. The first 20 minutes of their demolition of Man Utd was breathtaking.

Tommo is like Livvo, physical presence without huge goal return  - certainly worth a squad place but my fav pairing up front that has to be given a good games run is Bogle and Amond together - Amond makes Bogle's job easier by his positioning and passing to bring a young lad along in his first season at this level !

I wouldn't go so far to say that Tommo is like Livvo, not too sure about his physical presence but he does run around a lot, and you couldn't really say that about Livvo.

This extended signing is a risk for PH, if he doesn't score and we don't win the knives will be out for the both of them.

Let's hope he does score and we win.

Quoted from Caesar

If he plays I really hope he scores.  However why woud you want him to antoganize the fans?  Yeah he gets a bit of stick on here but he was hardly signled out for abuse at the weekend.  Apart from a few sarcastic cheers apperently against Gateshead fan have been behind him at matches and he seemed to have a bit of fun with the fans about kicking the water bottle around on Saturday.  

Hust has previously identified we want a sense of togetherness, foster that and share with the fans, we ar supposed to be all in it together, not out to make a point.  

I don't want him to, but he will find it hard to resist, that's just the nature of the man. I really do hope he scores. If he had notched a couple already some on here would have to find another scapegoat. Now let me see who could that be? Oh yes Andy Monkhouse and it is about time he scored another one.

Quoted from gary_elton

Looks like you're on Tommo.... you best get a couple...and I don't mean " in "..... or are you still on the ale in Richmond ????  

I am fine Gary. Looking forward to the game, less so listening to the moaning b...ers near me. Maybe a Tommo goal will calm things down. Frankly I don't mind who plays as long as they do their best to get us 3 points.

Quoted from oldun

Frankly I don't mind who plays as long as they do their best to get us 3 points.

For all the arguments, I think everyone should agree with this!

Quoted from chaos33

If correct that's a fair consideration.

http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/suspensions

If he could avoid getting booked tonight, a yellow on Saturday would give him a one game ban for a game he might be cup-tied for anyway.

If he's cup-tied, then the ban wouldn't count for that game, surely, and would move on to the next Conference game?

Quoted from Maringer

If he's cup-tied, then the ban wouldn't count for that game, surely, and would move on to the next Conference game?

He is not cup tied but Barnet might say they do not want him to be cup tied,

So if he is suspended Barnet will not need to say that.

That's what I was thinking, although obviously I'm not sure how cup tie stuff works exactly.

Slightly different as it was a league game, but last season Tom Cleveley served his ban against Man Utd (when on loan at Villa). Maybe this has brought in some sort of rule change, I dunno.

Quoted from grimsby pete

He is not cup tied but Barnet might say they do not want him to be cup tied,

So if he is suspended Barnet will not need to say that.

It all sounds a bit too cunning for me.  

Definitely something gone on with bogle and amond with hurst,been told by a very reliable source at the club and more so bogle he's not very happy at all and would you be if you were the club top goalscorer sat on the bench week in week out it's appalling the lad has fantastic ability and can score a goal from nothing yes he needs to learn and is a bit raw at times but how will you learn sat on ur bottom on the bench give him a chance and stop being so defensive !!! Get monkhouse on the bench give Marshall a chance and start playing football we see preseason not defensive boring hoof ball were all witnessing now come on PAUL wake up

It's not about scapegoating Tomlinson it's just the way our forward line has been ripped apart. He could have been rotated in a bit better with explanations to fans of reasoning. Instead I get a feeling of 'how dare they question me'.

Bogle is a confidence player and will be shot to bits no doubt. He's only young and clearly got a bit of maturing to do but should have an arm put round him and encouraged. Remember he's uprooted from his family down South which he wasn't keen on the thought of last year.

Amond, get the feeling he far surpassed what Hursty was expecting making him impossible to leave out at the beginning which mucked up Hursts best laid plans somewhat. Podge has defences at sixes and sevens with his movement and tricky interplay and to me it's absolutely criminal he's been dumped -especially at home where the fans want to be entertained to encourage them back in bigger numbers, boosting the coffers along the way of course.

Monkhouse is a great player in my eyes and not a scapegoat again but there is a case to answer for here too. The inequality in the squad of of the undroppables compared to those dropped like a bad habit. Monkhouse threw a wobbler getting subbed early on in the campaign then there was a game where our creativity was lost when he went off. This prompted Hurst to mention this point in the press and since then he has been ever present.

Now I'm not knocking Monkhouse let me repeat again but he's the elder statesman of the squad and most would agree he's gradually gone off the boil a little bit. Surely it makes sense to manage him over the course of a season using the squad available to us. We have done the biz at times in previous seasons without this type of player and say pacey Marshall on the wing instead along with the raw pace of an Arnold or whoever on the other to bombard the opposition into submission -especially at home.

But what a great option Monkhouse is be it to start or mix things up in game and Hurst should weigh up the pros and cons based on who we are playing rather than him being straight on the teamsheet no matter what.

I had some other points but supervisor is here ha ha... c ya  

Quoted from Mendonca1995

Definitely something gone on with bogle and amond with hurst,been told by a very reliable source at the club and more so bogle he's not very happy at all and would you be if you were the club top goalscorer sat on the bench week in week out it's appalling the lad has fantastic ability and can score a goal from nothing yes he needs to learn and is a bit raw at times but how will you learn sat on ur bottom on the bench give him a chance and stop being so defensive !!!

Heard the same and fully agree.

I'd heard that Amond is one to tell managers when he disagrees with them and has done at previous clubs.  No further information than that so you could read that as construcive criticism or being a bit more vocal and less polite. Not heard anything with regards to Town so no idea if the ones mentioned on here are true.

He has again tweeted "come on the lads" as he has done twice previously when he has been on the bench. Whether that's an indicator for his selection tonight or a weird initiation for Townsend I don't know.

When we signed Amond I went on the Morecambe forum and they were all saying they liked him but the manager didn't seem as keen, didn't play him as much as they'd have liked etc

As for the whole loan player/contracted player debate and who should be playing, i think a striker had to be brought in because we only had three and i can see why Hurst is keen to keep Tomlinson with JPP having glass hamstrings. He obviously couldn't get the target man he said he wanted and maybe Tomo was the only player available. He struggled to get someone last year. Whether he should be starting every game is another issue.

There is also the budget to consider. Do you sign 25/26 decent players and have all positions covered, or do you sign 21/22 better players, costing a bit more in wages and then juggle the squad around to cover injuries/suspensions/loss of form, aided with bringing in loans to plug gaps when we don't have enough to cover with contracted players? Most of our players are only on 1 year contracts anyway, so not that much different to a long loan deal. If Townsend and Tomlinson were signed on year long loans or a 1 year contract, would we feel differently about them coming into the side? I have some sympathy for Hurst on this as we can't just have a massive squad like we have at times in the past. He has to use the budget the best way he feels he can.

As for Bogle, he's a long term investment and i don't think he would have started as a regular had we more strikers on the books at the start of the season.

If we're playing the rumours game I heard a whisper that Terry Cooke was poking about with someone's wife...

Quoted from ginnywings

Well, in the spirit of "what we've heard", i was told that Clay was dropped and Robinson brought in because of a certain "dalliance"- allegedly. Don't know if there's any truth to it but would make sense. We don't always know what's happening behind the scenes and why players come in and out of the team. Arnold being a case in point

Robinson was brought in to cover for Clay while he was coping with a bereavement. Nothing untoward or remotely salacious about it and I'm surprised anyone is even still pedalling that rubbish.

Pfft. Wayne Burnett was there earlier and did it better. Allegedly, of course.

It smacks of a behind the scenes spat for sure. Okay Paul you've made your point, you're the boss we know, now let's all kiss and make up and get back to bringing down a reign of destruction upon opposing defences and entertaining the faithful who put their hard earned down in the hope of.

Unfortunately I'm pretty certain Tomlinson will start every game, even if failing to barely register. Hursty's new Shop character no doubt 'he brings so much to the team' etc etc (I was a big Shop fan for the record).

Again, don't want this to be misconstrued -I believe 'Tommo' could be an asset as 'something different' but we all know what was the deadliest option. I pray that option not been blunted to the point of taking a good deal of time to re-sharpen...

It seems as though the loanees HAVE to play, great show of faith to contracted players -I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest to see the excellent Tait benched once more (another fallout here methinks).

My source who is always dead on the money said Robinson HAD to play -it was part of the agreement though the likes of the wellninformed Big Chris rubbished such suggestions.

It's the chucking in a player straight in who has no understanding of his team mates as well -and an untried partnership to boot. At least JPP has worked with Podge n Bogle since pre season so could have been a bit of a make between.

The rest of the team to would have just been getting more and more used to the kind of runs and movement the front men tend to do and now it's top all that up and back to the drawing board. Is it any surprise we've suddenly looked a little impotent attacking and have dished out our most u pleasing on the eye performances of late -whatever Hurst says about our 0.6 points per game better off ness of late.

Hurst would I'm sure say he'd happily take drab scrappy 1 nils all season but it's living on the edge if defensive lapses crop back up.

Pro Hurst but very disgruntled... I'd begrudgingly take dour football for one Season if it guaranteed us promotion but to know what we've got in our locker and what we could be capable of if let loose leaves me pulling my hair out!

Quoted from Chrisblor

Robinson was brought in to cover for Clay while he was coping with a bereavement. Nothing untoward or remotely salacious about it and I'm surprised anyone is even still pedalling that rubbish.

Fair enough. Removed the offending part of the post.

It was a shame we weren't informed on the matter which allowed the mutterings of disconsent to swell, perhaps they learnt it's good to keep fans in loop when Arnold suffered a similar travesty.

Thoughts again with the friends and families of those concerned it must be said -not nice to drudge up such subjects to make any kind of point

Quoted from Rik e B

It was a shame we weren't informed on the matter which allowed the mutterings of disconsent to swell, perhaps they learnt it's good to keep fans in loop when Arnold suffered a similar travesty.

Thoughts again with the friends and families of those concerned it must be said -not nice to drudge up such subjects to make any kind of point

It's a difficult one. As a supporter of Grimsby Town I dont feel I have any rights to know anything about the personal lives of the players. Perhaps Craig Clay didnt want anything sharing? I suspect Nathan  may have felt differently rather than the club having learned some sort of "lesson". The players wishes WILL be paramount at such a time. Its a shame so many put two and two together and made five.